Transcript
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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.
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All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
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Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages.
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Listener discretion is advised.
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I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.
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And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski.
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And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover cold cases.
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And missing person cases.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing.
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I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.
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And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski.
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Wow babe, a year, right?
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Yeah, today is officially one year since we uploaded our first episode.
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We've grown quite a bit since then, learned a lot.
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And you've built something incredible and I get to see all the work that goes into it.
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So yeah, this just, I mean, it's business as usual, you know, you're working your tail
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off the moment before we just hit record.
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So yeah, like it feels, it's very celebratory, but like we're humbled and we're excited,
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like year two, let's do it.
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Yeah.
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Thank you to everyone who has been listening, even if you're just joining us today for the
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first time.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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We have listeners in every state in America and lots of listeners around the world as
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well, which yeah, is humbling and it's, it's an honor to be a part of your week in a small
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way.
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So thanks for being here.
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Thanks for joining us.
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And I think we should just get into this week's case, start the second year, just like any
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other year.
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Episode 53, correct?
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Episode 53.
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Alrighty.
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Um, could you remind me this is a missing person case?
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Yes, this is a missing persons case.
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Alrighty.
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Let's do it.
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So just as a content warning at the top, this case does involve a young person.
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Today we're going to be talking about Ann Marie Burr, and this takes place in Tacoma,
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Washington in August of 1961.
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But first a little bit about Ann, Ann was eight years old in the summer of 1961.
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She was born December 14th, 1952, and she would be 70 years old today.
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Ann was the oldest of four siblings and was a smart, caring and crafty young girl who
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had recently discovered embroidery and loved it.
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Ann and her family lived on North 14th Street in Tacoma, just blocks from the University
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of Puget Sound.
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She was looking forward to starting the third grade at her elementary school where she was
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a favorite student amongst teachers.
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Her father, Donald Burr, says quote, she had a strong little personality and a strong frame
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on which to express her personality.
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You just felt happy to be around her.
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She was just a regular little girl, end quote.
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And now a timeline of events.
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On Wednesday, August 30th, 1961, Ann spent the day playing with a neighborhood friend
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and had dinner over at their house.
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After having such a good time, Ann calls her mom to ask her if she can spend the night.
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Her mother, Beverly Burr, thought that since school started next week that Ann should
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come home to start getting into a bedtime routine.
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Ann and her siblings are put to bed around 8 p.m.
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The four siblings traded off sleeping in the basement.
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It was a special treat since it was part of the playroom.
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Tonight was not Ann's turn for sleeping in the basement, so Ann and her youngest sister
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Mary, who was three and had a cast on her arm at this time from a summer accident, went
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upstairs while Ann's younger sister and brother went downstairs to the basement.
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According to early reports, Donald and Beverly had family over that night, but by midnight
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they were ready for bed.
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The front door was locked and the chain was put on and the back door was locked.
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All the windows were closed and Donald and Beverly turned in for bed.
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Their bedroom was on the main floor.
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Early in the morning on August 31st, Ann is woken up by her younger sister crying because
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of her cast.
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She brings Mary downstairs to her parents' bedroom to wake them up.
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Beverly sends the girls back upstairs, telling Mary that her cast will come off soon.
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At 5.15 in the morning, Mary wakes up her mother again.
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She's alone this time.
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Beverly gets up and brings her back to her bedroom.
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When she checks in on Ann's room, she sees her bed empty.
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The bedsheets are pulled back but there is a neatness to the bed she recalls.
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Thinking Ann went to the basement to sleep with her other siblings, Beverly starts to
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head there.
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Before she can get to the basement, she sees that the front door is open and ajar.
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The front room window was also open.
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It had been left unlocked the night before but it had been closed due to the rain that
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moved in overnight.
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When Beverly looks outside, she notices that a wicker bench, normally kept in the backyard,
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was under the window in the front.
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Donald and Beverly search every inch of their home, looking for Ann, but when she's not
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found they call police that morning.
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Donald and Beverly search Ann's room for anything missing but nothing is gone.
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It appears the little girl was barefoot and still wearing her ankle-length nightgown with
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a flower pattern.
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As the parents are questioned, they recalled their dog barking once in the night and hearing
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neighborhood dogs bark but they couldn't recall what time that was.
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Police say they don't find any sign of a forced entry despite the door and window being
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open.
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Police Chief Don Hager orders patrol cars to start going block by block looking for
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the young girl.
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Neighbors begin to turn out and search their own properties and basements in case Ann
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was hiding somewhere.
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As minutes creep by, Donald and Beverly get more and more worried.
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Police searching the home have very little to go on.
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There were no signs of struggle anywhere in the home, including Ann's room.
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Inside under the open window there was a footprint found but the morning rain had blurred the
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details.
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Police are able to determine that it's a men's size 6 or 7.
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There were a few grass clippings on the rug in the living room and the bench outside had
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a few red fibers left on it.
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As word around town begins to spread about the missing 8-year-old girl, tips are called
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into police.
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One caller said that he saw Ann screaming in a blue and white car with California plates
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driven by a man in his 30s.
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Police find the car and the man matching the description and the driver tells police that
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the screams were coming from the radio.
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Police release him.
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Bloodhounds are brought in to try to track her scent but because of the wind and the
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rain they were unable to pick anything up.
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Police ask the FBI for help but because there is no evidence of an abduction they just observe.
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Police search until 11pm that night but they find no sign of Ann.
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Over the next two days a huge military operation is called into Tacoma to search for Ann.
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On Saturday, September 2nd, nearly 800 military personnel composing of the Army and National
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Guard join the police to search and the Army launches helicopters both days to help aid
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the searchers below.
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They go block by block looking for any clue as to what might have happened to Ann.
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Police haven't ruled out any theory yet including that she got amnesia and wondered off.
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Police are hesitant to say that someone entered the home through the window since the Burrs
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had a small table under the window with delicate figurines and none of them were disturbed.
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By the end of Saturday night, roughly 8-10 miles of Tacoma had been thoroughly searched.
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This included vacant lots and abandoned buildings and there was no trace of Ann found.
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The military is called off at the end of the day but police say it doesn't affect the
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intensity of their investigation.
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Inspector Emil Smith of the Tacoma Police says quote, will be on this 24 hours a day
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for I don't know how long.
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End quote.
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On Sunday, September 3rd, Ann has been missing for three days now.
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About 100 police and volunteers continue to search and police begin to coordinate with
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the Public Works Department to have all the manholes in the area of Ann's house checked
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along with the sewers leading all the way to the bay.
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They start going underground on Monday and into Tuesday looking for any sign of Ann.
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At this point police have searched by the air, ground, and underground and there was
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still no trace of Ann.
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Police still don't classify it as an abduction since they're unsure if perhaps Ann just
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wandered off and left the door ajar.
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With finding no trace of her in the sewer, police call in skin divers on Wednesday, September
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6th, just six days after Ann went missing, to search the bay where the main outfall from
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the sewer system went.
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Police search commencement bay fearing that the water would hold the answer to what happened
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to Ann, but police find no trace of her underwater either.
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It's like Ann simply vanished according to police.
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One week after Ann's disappearance, Donald and Beverly head to the police station and
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ask that they be given a polygraph test.
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Rumors in town that they were withholding information had gotten back to them and they
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wanted to clear their names right away.
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Police say they both pass and say that they believe that Donald and Beverly have acted
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in good faith with the police and have not held anything back.
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Not much to go on, police continue to search areas and research them, hoping they find
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something that was possibly missed the first time.
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After nine days, Ann's grandmother offers a thousand dollar reward from her own savings
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for information leading to Ann's safe return.
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She says quote, I would give more if I could only get her back, end quote.
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The family believe that someone crawled through the window and abducted Ann.
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Police believe the reward is good, but probably too small for someone to overcome the fear
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of telling the police what they know.
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Over the next several days, a fund is set up for the reward and people donate money
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for information.
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All in all, five thousand dollars will be raised by the community.
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On Thursday, September 21st, Ann has been missing for 21 days, police are stumped.
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Detective Russell Richardson says quote, I have never seen anything like it.
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We have nothing to give us any direction in the search, end quote.
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By the end of September, police have interviewed every home within 70 square blocks of the
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Burr's residence.
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Police had run down every lead called into them.
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The police say they don't know any more now than they did a month ago.
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Police have gathered 225 suspects, and I use that term loosely.
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They gathered the names of all known sex offenders in the area, people that were in the area
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by circumstance, and a few leads that had called in.
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Police will check out all their alibis and those they can't verify, they'll ask to
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take a lie detector test.
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Police also plan on having anyone within a 25 block radius take a lie detector test as
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well.
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As October rolls in, Donald and Beverly ask that people continue to check their properties
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again and to keep looking for Ann
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Donald asks that hunters be vigilant on their tracks.
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He says quote, we would like the hunter walking along a gulch or valley to take the extra
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little time to investigate if he sees something strange, end quote.
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The parents also mentioned that there was a peeping tom in the neighborhood recently.
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Police are starting to call her case an abduction.
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Detective Russell Richardson says quote, the physical situation and all the attended evidence
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indicates an intruder did enter the house and take the girl.
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Our investigation has eliminated the parents as suspects, end quote.
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Despite police believing in the abduction theory, the case is still not classified as
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an abduction so the FBI are still not involved.
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Donald and Beverly are trying to be strong for their three other children.
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Donald says quote, they look right into your eyes and they wonder what has happened in
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our house.
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They look like they have lost some security and they wonder will we, as a mother and father,
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permit a man to come into the household and take one of them, end quote.
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The family continue to pray for Ann and they'll never give up on her.
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As fall continues to move into winter, there are other crimes and attempted abductions
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of children that police look at but none lead back to Ann.
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On December 9th, Ann has been missing for 100 days.
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Police organize a search of University Place, Washington.
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This is directly west of Tacoma.
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Police tell searchers to be on the lookout for the nightgown Ann was last seen wearing,
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a necklace that she wore with religious medals of Jesus and Mary on them, and a bracelet
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with her address and phone number engraved as well as St. Christopher protect us engraved
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on the back.
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Amongst the searchers was Ann's father but nothing is found.
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Police ask that if people are out hunting Christmas trees during the holiday season
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that they stay vigilant.
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In March of 1962, so Ann has been missing for seven months at this point, a caller from
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Olympia Washington calls to say that he saw a little girl that looked like Ann with a
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man and a woman.
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The little girl was crying and asking for her mother.
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Police search Olympia but they're unable to find the couple or Ann.
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Police believe at this time that Ann is dead.
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However, a few months later there is another possible sighting of Ann.
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This time in Canada in Portage-La- Prairie.
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A man at a service station saw two women and a man and a young child eating at the restaurant.
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The man said the adults spoke sharply to the young girl and that she had demanded French
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toast at the restaurant.
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The man later saw a newspaper article with Ann's picture in it and recognized the young
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girl in the service station as Ann.
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The Royal Canadian Mounted Police are alerted but they're never able to find these people
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or any sign of Ann.
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In July of 1963, Ann has been missing for almost two years now.
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The Burrs adopt a baby girl.
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They said they're happy to have four kids in the house again.
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Beverly says quote, the detectives have been wonderful.
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We're in contact with them about once a week and we know they are doing everything
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they can.
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We still hope someone will remember something.
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I guess we're reconciled.
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It's hard to use that word.
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To probably not see Ann Marie alive again.
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But we can't take her out of our hearts.
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End quote.
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Police say they're no closer to solving it now than they were two years ago.
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Two detectives are still assigned to the case and they have five thoughts on what could
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have possibly happened to Ann.
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So the first is that someone who was obsessed with Ann and wanted to take her specifically
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abducted her.
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The second thought is that Ann was enticed out of the house by someone that knew her.
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Police say the light was left on in the living room so she would have been able to see someone
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at the window.
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The third thought is that this was a vengeful act against the parents but police find no
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evidence of this.
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Another thought is that this was a money gain kidnapping but there are no ransom calls or
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notes ever delivered to the Burrs and the Burrs are not a wealthy family.
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And the last idea that police have is that this could have been a case of mistaken identity.
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There was another Burr family in Tacoma, Washington that was wealthy and they had a daughter about
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Ann's age.
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Police theorize that perhaps they were the intended targets for a ransom kidnapping.
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But they don't discover any evidence to support this either.
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In July of 1964, so Ann has been missing for just under three years, 10-year-old Gay Lynn
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Stewart is abducted after walking to a park from her home.
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She's taken from Tacoma, Washington and for three days a man named Ralph Everett Larkee
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drove around Washington, Oregon and Idaho with her.
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He cut her hair and changed her clothes.
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After three days he dropped her back off in Tacoma with $15 and she was recognized when
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she went into a store to buy some candy.
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The FBI moved to arrest him in early September but as agents announced themselves at the
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door they hear a gunshot inside and Larkee had shot himself.
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The FBI aren't able to talk to him about Gay Lynn's abduction or about Ann's.
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Police were very interested in talking to him about Ann's disappearance due to the similarities
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in the case.
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At the four-year mark, Beverly and Donald write a letter published in the newspaper.
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It reads in part, quote,
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It was a black night and raining hard.
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We wonder if the wind was screaming with her screams.
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We wonder if a group of drunken crazed boys took her or a mad sadist.
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Night comes and with it the fear, the listening, the horror again and again.
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Only prayer can lessen the pain as we whisper, Dear God, be with Ann.
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Please let us and other parents like us be strong.
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The child pays for the crime in hours of unbelievable terror.
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Parents pay every day they live.
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The criminal?
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We want him to be rehabilitated and paroled.
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But not less there is a job waiting and a friend.
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And not unless he believes he was created for one purpose alone, to love God and to
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serve him and this by loving his fellow man.
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End quote.
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In October of 1967, Ann has been missing for six years at this point, a man in prison
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confesses to helping bury the body of Ann.
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His story changes often, but he mainly says that a man who worked on a bean farm outside
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of Salem, Oregon had killed Ann and he helped get rid of the body.
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Police bring the man from prison out to Oregon where he says it happened.
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First police search a pond on the bean farm after he said that he had tied weights to
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her and sank her body.
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When they don't find any evidence in the pond, the next day he says that they had actually
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buried her in a shallow grave near the pond.
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While police don't believe this man since his story has changed so much, they can't
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disprove what he's saying either.
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So they check every place he points out.
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Eventually they determine he's lying and they just take him back to prison.
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In 1971, at the 10 year anniversary of Ann's abduction, the family thanks the community
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for all they've done to look for Ann and support them.
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They return all the donations from the reward fund back to the original donors.
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In April of 1975, this is about 14 years since Ann's abduction, there are a lot of young
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women that had turned up missing in the Tacoma area.
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A reporter asked Beverly what she would tell the mothers of other missing daughters.
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She said that it's impossible to put it into words, but to try to keep the faith and hold
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00:18:29,420 --> 00:18:30,800
on to hope.
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00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,380
In 1975, Ted Bundy is arrested in Utah.
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Police in Washington become extremely interested in him, in part because of the unsolved Ted
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00:18:41,020 --> 00:18:45,320
murders in Washington, but also related to Ann's disappearance.
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Tacoma police major Robert Johnson had this to say about Bundy at the time of his arrest,
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quote, we're extremely reluctant to discuss it out of fairness to this man.
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We don't want to give the impression we're trying to pin every unsolved crime in the
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last 20 years on the poor guy, end quote.
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Of course, almost all the cases are eventually tied to Bundy.
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It turns out that in 1961, the year Ann disappeared from her home, Ted Bundy lived in Tacoma,
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Washington.
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Bundy would have been 14 years old in 1961.
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He didn't live in the same neighborhood as Ann.
315
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,320
Bundy lived about two miles away, but he did have an uncle who lived in Ann's neighborhood
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that he visited often.
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During that time, he had a newspaper route near the Burr neighborhood.
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00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:34,280
It has also been said that Ann took piano lessons from a neighbor of Bundy's.
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There is no evidence that I could find that the two ever met, but there was certainly
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opportunities for their paths to cross.
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The detectives who worked Ann's case the longest didn't believe that Bundy was involved.
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They had figured the suspect fit into one of these scenarios.
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The first being Ann is alive and being held hostage by someone that she knows.
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They don't believe that a stranger could have gotten Ann out of her bed without any
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commotion or arousing the family dog.
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00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:06,040
Their second thought is that Larkee, the man who kidnapped Gay Lynn, had kidnapped and
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00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,840
killed Ann, but got rid of her body in one of the construction projects happening in
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1961.
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00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,760
Police point out at the time that there was a sewer project happening in the neighborhood
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with ditches 30 feet deep and the University of Puget Sound was also building and the day
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Ann disappeared a large concrete foundation was poured.
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And the third idea is that police also theorize that a young man in the neighborhood killed
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Ann but not Bundy.
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This young man was from a very religious family and that he had done it.
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They put him on a lie detector twice and he couldn't pass according to police.
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In January of 1989, this is 28 years after the night Ann disappeared, the state of Florida
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00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:52,020
had signed Bundy's execution papers and in a last-ditch effort to put it off again,
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Bundy said that he had killed 11 women and girls in Washington, 8 known by police and
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3 unknown.
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Bundy's legal team hoped that they will hold off the date of execution so Bundy can
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give these confession and the bodies can be recovered.
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He won't give details about the three unknown unless the date is pushed back.
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Donald and Beverly Burr had been writing to Ted Bundy to try to get information out of
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him about Ann.
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They believed that Bundy had kidnapped their daughter.
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Donald even believes that he saw Ted the morning that Ann disappeared.
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00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,720
When he and a search party were on the University of Puget Sound campus looking for her, Donald
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00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,160
saw a young man in the bottom of a watery pit near the construction site.
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When he asked the youth about Ann, the young boy said he didn't know anything.
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Looking back, Donald says, quote, I see this young man's face before me always.
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The likeness of Bundy was there, end quote.
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Beverly had always thought that a young person had done it because the wicker bench wouldn't
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have held someone that weighed a lot and because of the smaller size shoe print under the window.
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Ted Bundy will eventually write back to Donald and Beverly saying that he did not kill Ann,
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that in 1961 he was a normal 14-year-old boy and was not out roaming the streets late at
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night.
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He tells this much to the Washington State investigator Robert Keppell as well.
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However, Keppell thought Bundy was lying and trying to protect his mother's feelings.
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Bundy's mother, Louise, was adamant that Bundy did not commit any crimes under her
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roof, that those all happened once he had left.
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Keppell also thinks that Bundy's explanation of why he had nothing to do with Ann's
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disappearance was weak.
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He says, quote, he denied that he did it, but he kind of offered some qualifiers.
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He told me he was too young at the time.
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He told me serial killer start a little older than that.
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My feeling is Bundy isn't telling the truth.
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He gave me a weak explanation of why he wasn't the killer.
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End quote.
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Police also point to an interview that Bundy did with Tom Holmes in 1986.
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When Holmes asked Bundy to speak hypothetically about a killer like him, Bundy theorized that
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someone like him would hypothetically start at around 14 or 15 by killing an eight or
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nine-year-old girl.
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Police believe he was talking about himself and Ann.
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In August of 1999, 38 years after Ann was last seen in those early morning hours, a
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memorial service is held for her.
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Donald Burr said, quote, life cycle is coming around and we think we may want to finish
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this and face the reality of one of our children have left us.
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End quote.
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Donald and Beverly, along with the police currently handling the case, believe Bundy
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is the killer and Ann was his first victim.
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Bundy's mother, Louise, says, quote, I resent the fact that everybody in Tacoma thinks just
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because he lived in Tacoma he did that one too, way back when he was 14.
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I'm sure he didn't.
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End quote.
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In July of 2011, 50 years since Ann disappeared, an investigator working on her case wanted
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to know if there was a DNA sample of Bundy that could be tested against evidence from
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Ann's case that had never been analyzed.
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Police don't give any details about what this evidence could be.
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From my understanding, they had very little to go on in 1961, so we're not sure what
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00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,120
items the police have kept as evidence.
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00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,840
By luck, a vial of Bundy's blood was still on file even though it had been set to be
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destroyed years ago.
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Police are able to upload his DNA into CODIS and compare him against evidence from Ann's
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case.
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So, some months after these items were submitted in October of 2011, the results come back
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and the lab was not able to develop a DNA profile of the suspect from the evidence in
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Ann's case.
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No suspects were able to be eliminated via DNA, including Ted Bundy.
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And that is the last update that we have on Ann Burr's case.
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So if you know anything about the disappearance of Ann Marie Burr in August of 1961 or her
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00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:08,960
whereabouts today, you are encouraged to call the Tacoma Police Department at 253-798-4721.
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00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,360
And the sources for the timeline today come from the News Tribune, who covered this story
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00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:21,640
extensively from 1961 to present day, the Bellingham Herald, Longview Daily News, Kitsap
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00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:29,080
Sun, The Olympian, The Spokesman Review, Tri-City Herald, The Columbian, Spokane Chronicle,
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00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,400
and The Bellingham Herald.
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00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,700
So that is the case of Ann Marie Burr.
407
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:35,700
There were a lot of details.
408
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:41,480
Thank you for providing all of that content and I'm sure putting some of the storyline
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00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:49,520
together for us to follow because I, in listening, didn't really walk away with a ton of questions.
410
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:57,560
Some initial thoughts though are I'm not really interested in talking about the Bundy theory
411
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,960
unless like you want to just briefly we can like breeze over it.
412
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,120
I just I don't think that that person needs any more like mic time.
413
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:10,160
I'm like yeah, like I get you explained it perfectly.
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00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,160
I understand.
415
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,160
Sure.
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00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:19,800
But the question I did walk away with was for you like in your research did you did
417
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,560
you have a suspect in mind?
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00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,920
First of all, I agree with you that I don't think the Ted Bundy needs a lot of mic time,
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but it's really tempting to want to pin it on him.
420
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:40,920
And I wouldn't I definitely don't bat like I'm not like whatever I'm like oh it is 100%
421
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,000
possible.
422
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:47,660
I guess I'm just like to be a part of the narrative of just like kind of dismantling
423
00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:55,120
the excitement around serial killers like and I'm you know unfortunately if someone
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00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:00,040
who was have been a part of that and I just don't want to be in this.
425
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,040
Yeah.
426
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,760
Yeah, it's it's totally possible but I think also kind of dismantling that I don't know
427
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:17,640
if Ted Bundy is that good at you know murdering people that on his first one at 14 years old
428
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,660
he could get away with it.
429
00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:23,600
No evidence, no murder, nobody hears anything.
430
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,360
Nobody finds her.
431
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:30,480
It just seems wild to me that a 14 year old even a 14 year old Ted Bundy would be able
432
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,840
to pull off this.
433
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,840
It's a big crime.
434
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:35,840
Yeah.
435
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:36,840
I mean.
436
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:42,680
But also on the same token, a suspect that police really liked that I kind of saw come
437
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:49,400
up again and again was this younger person that lived in the neighborhood that knew the
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00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,400
Burrs.
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00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,480
He came from a religious family that was like really the only clue the police gave to his
440
00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,440
identity that he would have committed the crime and police said that he would have known
441
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,520
the layout of the Burrs home as well where Bundy would not have known the layout of the
442
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:06,520
home at all.
443
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,360
He would have just gotten lucky.
444
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:09,360
Yeah.
445
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:18,560
That size shoe as well about the size of a like an at quote average like girl would also
446
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,960
wear that size or woman you know.
447
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,960
So yeah I would say that's about like a girl's seven or eight.
448
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,680
Yeah it was also something that I thought in reading this is that police always refer
449
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:39,240
to the suspect as a male but I'm like are they just assuming that because historically
450
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,200
that is the case.
451
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:47,040
But I personally am like well what about somebody like a woman wanting to do it.
452
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:54,120
Yeah and especially of the time again like definitely more girls play with girls boys
453
00:28:54,120 --> 00:29:02,600
plays play with boys like your like girlfriends know your bedroom know your whole house.
454
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,520
You guys are running and running around you know like think about like sleepovers and
455
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:12,840
stuff like your little friends know the layout so do babysitters.
456
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,760
So yeah I was like this could be a like an adult woman who happens to be maybe on the
457
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,680
more petite side you know.
458
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:27,080
Yeah police did seem for sure that the suspect whoever they are whether they were like a
459
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:32,760
smaller adult or maybe a teen that they had to have been on the shorter side to need the
460
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,320
wicker bench to get up and over the front window.
461
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,680
Somebody who might have been a little bit taller could have just lifted themselves up
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00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:40,680
and over.
463
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:47,520
Yeah so yeah those are like my reactions and questions for the most part like who do you
464
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,840
did do you have a suspect getting back to it.
465
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:58,920
Yeah the day that Ann went missing a caller said that he saw Ann in a car screaming.
466
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,240
Police find the car and the guy doesn't deny screaming he says the screaming was coming
467
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,440
from the radio and police let him go.
468
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:13,480
I think that there's something in all of that personally it was just the caller said
469
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:20,560
he saw Ann in a car he saw her and then this man is later pulled over he has California
470
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,760
plates there in Washington he has a blue and white car so there are some distinctive features
471
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,800
and he said the screaming comes from the radio so he never denies that there was screaming
472
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,240
happening.
473
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,200
Why wasn't that man looked at a second time that's what I can't understand or was he
474
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,080
and I missed it.
475
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,520
Not that I could find or that I could ever see talked about again it seems like police
476
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,120
track him down they talk to him right there they let him go.
477
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:56,160
But you know I hope that there is a resolution for Ann's siblings they're still with us
478
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:02,960
her parents have passed on but her siblings are still alive and hoping for answers.
479
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,520
My heart really goes out to them.
480
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:14,200
The imagery of the story you know just listening to it I was like terrified.
481
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:22,080
It's very scary to and my mind lends itself to like recreate imagery that like scares
482
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,960
me but like it scared me to hear that it scared me to hear it.
483
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,240
It's a scary story like you know in the middle of the night Ann is up with her younger sister
484
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,320
and then just a few hours later she's gone and the doors open and the windows open that's
485
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,320
a nightmare.
486
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,640
It is a yes it is a nightmare.
487
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:46,880
Yeah it's a nightmare if you are someone who you know is interested and invested in the
488
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:54,600
true crime world it's a lot of our worst fears you know for sure is mine and knowing how
489
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,200
easily life can be turned upside down.
490
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:05,480
Ted Bunny is a big name the fact that like I didn't really know this you know speaks
491
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:14,400
volumes about the necessity for not just podcasts but like hubs of like people who like care
492
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,800
about talk just like talking about stuff like this because I'm like how did I not know.
493
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:25,200
I'm someone who like it should have come across my radar you know and maybe it did and I wasn't
494
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:31,080
listening but I am I'm listening now.
495
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:36,360
I'll be honest I you know I've read The Stranger Beside Me I've watched documentaries.
496
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,640
Oh yeah of course I mean I think anyone who's listening is probably like yeah me too me
497
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,360
too me too it's an echo chamber in here in regards to that.
498
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:53,360
Totally but I didn't know about this potential first victim when he was 14 years old and
499
00:32:53,360 --> 00:33:01,760
how deeply investigators still on the case today kind of believe this theory.
500
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:07,280
So yeah the cops have a couple theories and Ted Bundy is still on the list.
501
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:12,680
He's still on the list they haven't been able to eliminate him they tried with his DNA but
502
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:19,240
unfortunately they weren't able to develop a profile of the suspect in Ann's case so
503
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,640
he couldn't be eliminated.
504
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:29,440
Again if you know anything about the disappearance of Ann Marie Burr in August of 1961 or her
505
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:39,720
whereabouts today please call the Tacoma Police Department at 253-798-4721.
506
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:47,840
And while we've still got your attention hopefully please while you're in your podcast app rate
507
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:54,240
like subscribe Apple podcasts leave us a written review we love to see those.
508
00:33:54,240 --> 00:34:00,160
And if you're already following us on Instagram you've seen our updated logo hopefully you're
509
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,200
seeing it now in your podcast player as well that means I did everything right to get it
510
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,000
uploaded but if not you should be following us on Instagram we'll have pictures of Ann
511
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:15,880
Marie or you can check out our website coldandmissing.com you can review us there you can leave a donation
512
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,160
there you can send us a voicemail there so anything you want to know even if you want
513
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:26,880
to know a little bit more about Eli and I it's all on our website www.coldandmissing.com
514
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:34,360
and just thank you again for being here as we enter our second year of cold and missing
515
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,880
I can't wait to see where this goes and I'm glad you're here and a part of it and with
516
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,600
that have a good week and stay safe y'all.
517
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,120
Thanks for being here and stay safe y'all.
