Cold and Missing: Betty Rolf

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,440
The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.

2
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,000
All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

3
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,420
Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages and is intended for a mature

4
00:00:22,420 --> 00:00:23,600
audience.

5
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:34,720
Listener discretion is advised.

6
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,520
Welcome back everyone.

7
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,040
It is our 15th episode.

8
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,000
I'm Ali, your host.

9
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,880
I'm Eli, as always, your co-host.

10
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,400
And this is Cold and Missing.

11
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:54,520
Yeah, we hope you all had some nice time with your family if you had the opportunity to

12
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,000
spend that time with them last week.

13
00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,000
Yes.

14
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:03,520
There was a small update out of Delphi this past week if our listeners have been staying

15
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:04,520
on top of it.

16
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,400
Nothing really new happened.

17
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:12,120
The judge that is presiding over the case of the murder of Abby Williams and Libby

18
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:17,920
German, she is taking her time to decide if the court documents are going to stay sealed.

19
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,760
So that's where we're at on that.

20
00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,880
But if anything changes, if we have a big update, we'll of course bring that to you.

21
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:24,880
That sounds good to me.

22
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,360
I've been getting those Google alerts now that we have them with the mutual Cold and

23
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,200
Missing email.

24
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,400
So it's actually really helpful because I've been able to keep up with everything and I

25
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:44,440
have a larger understanding of the criminal justice system and how it's not a linear trajectory

26
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:45,440
in any sense.

27
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:46,440
It's like swirly.

28
00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:52,160
What is it called in The Good Place?

29
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,160
The Time thing?

30
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:54,160
Oh, Jeremy Bear Me.

31
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,160
Jeremy Bear Me.

32
00:01:55,160 --> 00:02:01,520
That's what Cold and Missing cases remind me of, the timeline of Jeremy Bear Me.

33
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,120
Yeah, Jeremy Bear Me timeline.

34
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,120
Yeah.

35
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,120
Does that make sense?

36
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:06,120
Okay.

37
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,200
So I have a case for you this week, but I do need to give you just like a warning up

38
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,120
top that it is about an old person.

39
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:14,440
Okay.

40
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:22,680
I know you and some of our listeners as well, stories about older folks kind of hit harder.

41
00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,240
So I just want to give that warning now.

42
00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,800
And also just a trigger warning up top, there will be a mention of sexual assault in this

43
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,840
case.

44
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,140
So please take care of yourself.

45
00:02:35,140 --> 00:02:41,120
So today I'm bringing you the case of Betty Rolf and she is 60 years old.

46
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:46,880
And this takes place in Appleton, Wisconsin on November 6th, 1988.

47
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,640
Right before your birthday.

48
00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:52,480
I was 10 days away.

49
00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,280
10 days away from being born.

50
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:55,280
Crazy.

51
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,280
Nine days actually.

52
00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:58,280
Nine days.

53
00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,280
Wow.

54
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:00,280
Ready to meet the world.

55
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,280
Okay.

56
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,760
So a little bit about Betty.

57
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,920
She's originally from Port William, Ohio.

58
00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:11,440
And that is where she met her husband, Charles Rolf, when he was stationed nearby for the

59
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:12,640
Air Force.

60
00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:16,240
And they have been married for 35 years in 1988.

61
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,240
They have five children.

62
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:18,240
35 years.

63
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,240
35, yeah.

64
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,080
They have five children and 10 grandchildren.

65
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:28,920
And Betty is described as an amazing woman, a wonderful mother, a famous cook.

66
00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:34,640
She's known for her homemade bread, rolls, pies, and noodles specifically.

67
00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:35,640
Noodles.

68
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:36,640
Noodles.

69
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:37,640
Betty's got noodles.

70
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:38,640
Awesome.

71
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,880
Betty and Charles have lived in their home on Spencer Street in Appleton, Wisconsin for

72
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,760
about 20 years.

73
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,880
And this is a quote from Teresa, Betty and Charles' daughter.

74
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,440
She says, quote, my mom was very caring.

75
00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,460
She would do anything for anyone.

76
00:03:54,460 --> 00:03:55,580
She had no enemies.

77
00:03:55,580 --> 00:03:57,280
She wouldn't hurt anyone.

78
00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,760
She was a beautiful woman.

79
00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,720
She didn't drink or smoke or go out to the bars or anything like that.

80
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,660
Everybody that I know liked her.

81
00:04:04,660 --> 00:04:10,720
And Betty works in the laundry department at Country Air, which is like a banquet hall,

82
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,280
reception space area.

83
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:18,560
So Saturday, November 5th, 1988, Betty runs into her daughter, Sheila, at the grocery

84
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,320
store and they make some small talk.

85
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,520
And then Charles says that they had a normal evening together.

86
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:30,320
They watched TV and then they went to bed kind of late, around 1 AM.

87
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:35,280
Originally, though, it is reported that Charles was at work during this time, but per his

88
00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:36,640
account he was home.

89
00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,400
That's interesting.

90
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:39,840
Yes.

91
00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:44,480
That's two completely different, well, I guess if they're looking at him in any way, those

92
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,560
are two very different alibis.

93
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:47,560
Yeah.

94
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,800
And it's like the media that reported him as being gone.

95
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,080
So I just don't know if that was a mistake that gets corrected later on, but two varying

96
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,620
stories kind of off the bat.

97
00:04:58,620 --> 00:05:05,280
So Sunday, November 6th, 1988, a heavy snowstorm engulfs Appleton, Wisconsin that morning.

98
00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:10,860
And it's like the first big snowfall of the winter of 1988.

99
00:05:10,860 --> 00:05:13,120
And that morning around two and a half inches fell.

100
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,920
So it was coming down pretty fast.

101
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,400
Betty, she doesn't like to drive in the snow, so she'll decide to walk from her home to

102
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:20,800
work.

103
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,660
And it's less than a mile to get to work.

104
00:05:23,660 --> 00:05:28,160
It's just a little over half a mile from her home to her work, and it's on the same street.

105
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,760
So it's not a far walk or a hard walk by any stretch of the imagination.

106
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,380
And Charles says this, he says, quote, she always did that.

107
00:05:36,380 --> 00:05:38,800
It would be 30 below out and she'd walk.

108
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,160
She was an old farm girl.

109
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:41,600
My car was sitting right there.

110
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:42,600
She could have taken it.

111
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,360
I didn't have to work that day until 3.30.

112
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,640
So at 5.30 AM, Betty sets off for country air.

113
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:55,000
She was scheduled to start work at 6 AM and assumed if she got to work early, her coworkers

114
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,840
would have let her in because she didn't have a key to get into the place.

115
00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:04,760
But as far as we know, Betty never makes it inside of her job because her time card is

116
00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,140
never punched.

117
00:06:07,140 --> 00:06:12,720
There is some debate if she made it to country air and perhaps the doors were locked.

118
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,760
So she turned around and was maybe headed home, but she never made it inside of work.

119
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,480
Betty normally would have arrived home around 2 in the afternoon, but she fails to return

120
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,800
and immediately her family is worried.

121
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,600
Charles is worried, her husband, but he assumes she's running errands or babysitting a grand

122
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:31,880
kid.

123
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,720
And then when she isn't home that evening, Charles assumes she's babysitting for their

124
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,440
son who didn't have a home phone so he couldn't call and ask.

125
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,920
So he assumes that's where she is.

126
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,620
But by Monday morning, November 7th, 1988, when Betty still doesn't turn up, she's reported

127
00:06:48,620 --> 00:06:53,040
missing at 1042 AM by one of her daughters.

128
00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,280
The police respond pretty quickly.

129
00:06:55,280 --> 00:07:01,280
An Appleton police officer, Warren Woodard, decides to retrace Betty's walk to work.

130
00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:06,960
About halfway between her home and work, Officer Woodard finds Betty at the bottom of a railroad

131
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,040
underpass around 11 AM.

132
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,160
So about 20 minutes after she's reported missing, they actually find her body.

133
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,920
Her body is partially obscured by a concrete support wall.

134
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,200
Like a support wall, like those ones that are like half, like that come to your waist?

135
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,200
Kind of.

136
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:31,200
So where this happens on Spencer Street, it's a bridge that crosses over a railroad track.

137
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,200
Okay.

138
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,760
Betty is found at the bottom of the railroad underpass.

139
00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,160
So she's off the road from my understanding.

140
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:42,720
She's like off the road and like kind of underneath this bridge more or less.

141
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,760
So you wouldn't really be able to see her.

142
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:45,760
Sure.

143
00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,900
Betty is also found partially nude.

144
00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:51,120
Her jeans and underwear were found next to her body.

145
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:57,560
She also has multiple bruises on her head according to newspaper reports, but police

146
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,320
never really confirm this, but later they will say that she was beat.

147
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,120
So this would lead me to believe that she was bruised up pretty badly.

148
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,200
I'm so angry.

149
00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,200
Yeah.

150
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,960
Immediately, police begin to treat it like a homicide, but they're unsure if the attack

151
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:18,080
took place where her body was found or if her body was left there.

152
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,840
And a year later, they will believe she was killed where her body was found.

153
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,680
So they do think that everything happened kind of in this underpass.

154
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,960
Where's the bridge in relation to work?

155
00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,400
Is it on the way or is it...

156
00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,640
Yeah, it's about halfway between her job and her home.

157
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:34,640
So it's right on the...

158
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:35,680
It's on Spencer.

159
00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:36,840
It's on Spencer Street.

160
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,000
It's right along the path.

161
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,000
It's right there.

162
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,000
They didn't...

163
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:46,040
Usually, for a cold case, the body is found a couple of miles away.

164
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,760
It's odd, but this is...

165
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,640
She followed the trajectory.

166
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,040
The evilness happened right on that path and then...

167
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,640
I feel like it rarely happens that way.

168
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:57,640
Yeah.

169
00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:58,640
Totally.

170
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,880
Yeah, she's reported missing and 20 minutes later, they find her.

171
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:02,880
Wow.

172
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:03,880
Okay.

173
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:12,080
They're processing the scene and Teresa, Betty's daughter, was actually driving to her parents'

174
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,240
house to be with them since the mother was missing when she saw the commotion.

175
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,560
So she stops and was like, is that my mom?

176
00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:21,960
And they're like, can you give us a description of her?

177
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,440
And then they tell her, yes, this is your mother that we found.

178
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:26,440
Oh my God.

179
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:32,480
So Teresa, her daughter, stands vigil at the scene until her mother's body is removed around

180
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,800
340 that afternoon.

181
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:35,800
That's so fast.

182
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,800
They had just...

183
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,280
Yeah, they were...

184
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,360
I mean, almost five hours.

185
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,080
It doesn't mean they were done processing the scene.

186
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,800
It just meant that they were okay to...

187
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:50,280
No, I just mean there wasn't even time for the family to have hope.

188
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,280
I'm sorry, I'm crying.

189
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:54,280
It's okay.

190
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:55,280
That's really...

191
00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,720
I think you're right.

192
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:06,560
According to newspapers, police did find footprints at the scene and were attempting to lift them.

193
00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:12,040
No reports on if anything came of that, if they were successful.

194
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,520
Families obviously shocked by their mother's death.

195
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:20,240
And Teresa, her daughter, mentions that a few days earlier, her mother had received

196
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,540
in a scene phone call, she says, quote, he was talking about sex and he was sexually

197
00:10:25,540 --> 00:10:26,920
harassing her.

198
00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,760
She didn't seem to know who it was.

199
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:34,600
She just figured it was some weirdo that picked her name out of the phone book, end quote.

200
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:39,120
Neighbors also report that they saw a suspicious man riding a bike near where the victim was

201
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:40,120
found as well.

202
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,200
So these are the leads coming out of the first day.

203
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,440
Wow, day one.

204
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:47,440
And this is like...

205
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,160
You said it's Appleton, Wisconsin, right?

206
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,680
It's relatively small community or...

207
00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:55,960
It's like a good sized suburb, I would say.

208
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:56,960
So it's like...

209
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:57,960
Okay.

210
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,400
Like a small town where everybody knows everybody.

211
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:01,400
Right.

212
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:02,400
Yeah.

213
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:03,400
Okay.

214
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:04,400
Not like that.

215
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,360
So November 8th, this is Tuesday, the next day, Betty's death is reported in the newspapers

216
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,000
and her autopsy is done by the state crime lab.

217
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:18,400
And originally, police will say the autopsy showed no signs of sexual assault, but detailed

218
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,920
microscopic examination of the body determines that she was in fact sexually assaulted.

219
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:29,960
And for a long time, especially after her murder, they really backtrack, because everything

220
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,720
was reported that she had been assaulted and murdered, assaulted and murdered.

221
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,000
That was the headlines that were going.

222
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,200
And in the following days, police will really try to walk back the fact that she was sexually

223
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:46,080
assaulted and say that there's no evidence and that her body was possibly even set up

224
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,360
to look that way.

225
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:53,160
But three months later, they very quietly confirm she was sexually assaulted.

226
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:59,400
And they also determined that Betty died from asphyxiation and police would not confirm

227
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,240
if she was strangled or not.

228
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,200
And they stick to this over the years.

229
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,960
They never go any more detailed than saying she...

230
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,680
They never say what the method was, just that it was asphyxiation.

231
00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:09,680
It was asphyxiation.

232
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:10,680
Yeah.

233
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:15,280
Police also make a plea to the community that anyone that saw anything Sunday morning to

234
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,760
come forward, please say her entire route is considered a crime scene, but the most

235
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,280
critical time being 6 AM.

236
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,240
So that's really when they want people who live in the area to think back.

237
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:27,240
Did they notice anything?

238
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,600
Did they hear anything around 6 AM Sunday morning?

239
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,900
The next day, newspapers are continuing to run Betty's story, but they also reveal that

240
00:12:35,900 --> 00:12:41,180
she was a peripheral witness in a 1982 murder.

241
00:12:41,180 --> 00:12:47,700
So in July of 1982, 25 year old Ann Peterson is sitting in a car with her brother, Mark

242
00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:52,600
Peterson, outside of her boyfriend, Neil Johnson's house.

243
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,800
Neil comes outside and shoots and kills Ann.

244
00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,880
Mark, her brother, begins driving to the hospital, but is overcome with grief.

245
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:06,920
So he stops at Betty's home and has Charles Jr., Betty's son, Mark's friend, to finish

246
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,440
the drive to the hospital.

247
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,880
Mark talked with Betty and he phoned the police from her home.

248
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,640
And Neil, this man who shot Ann, he is eventually found guilty of second degree murder and is

249
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,160
sentenced to 20 years.

250
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:25,320
But this is something that the newspapers kind of uncovered, this link to this other

251
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,320
murder in 1982.

252
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,960
On Thursday, November 10th of that week, a team of homicide investigators from three

253
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,840
different police agencies begin to canvas the area.

254
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:43,720
So Betty lives and works in Appleton, but just because of the way that the county lines and

255
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,240
the town lines run, she was technically killed in another-

256
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:48,240
County?

257
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:54,240
Or not county, but another town called Grand Chute.

258
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,440
That was where her body was technically found.

259
00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:01,400
But because all these different jurisdictions, the sheriff's office leads the investigation

260
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,440
helped by Appleton and Grand Chute.

261
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,760
So that's why there's three agencies involved in this murder.

262
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,440
I mean, it's cool that they work together.

263
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,440
Usually it's not like that.

264
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:09,440
Usually it's not.

265
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:10,440
I was really surprised.

266
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:15,120
Was there to be the winner to find who did it?

267
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,120
Yeah.

268
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:21,760
And this group of investigators, they aim to interview everyone that lives between Betty's

269
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,200
home and her work.

270
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,800
So everyone that lives on Spencer Street.

271
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,040
Police also claim that they found the man riding the bike and interviewed him.

272
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,840
So this person that was reported as being suspicious has been found and cleared, it

273
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:35,960
sounds like.

274
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,160
And robbery is also eliminated as a motive at this point.

275
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:45,080
Body was found with $30 cash in her purse and nothing was missing from her person.

276
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,640
So everything was accounted for.

277
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,280
So robbery is not a motive for the murder.

278
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,480
And police say that there are tips coming from the public, but at this time they have

279
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,120
no suspects.

280
00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:02,040
So Friday, November 11th, again, the police doubled down and they say that the forensic

281
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:08,440
pathologist in Madison, Robert Huntington, his report proves conclusively that she was

282
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:14,120
not sexually assaulted, but again, three months later, police will backtrack this and confirm

283
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,960
that she was sexually assaulted.

284
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,840
And police at this point are at a loss if she was attacked by someone she knew or if

285
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,280
this was a stranger.

286
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:23,920
They have no idea.

287
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,120
And then I thought this was interesting.

288
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:32,440
November 16th, so this is about a week and a half later, around 9.40 PM, a 33 year old

289
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,640
woman was forced into her building by a red bearded man wearing a camo jacket and blue

290
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,000
jeans.

291
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,880
She screams and he runs off.

292
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,600
And this happens on Spencer Street, about two blocks away from where Betty's body was

293
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,240
found.

294
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,520
And police refuse to confirm if this could have been related to Betty.

295
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:57,600
But I wonder, or at this time they believe pretty conclusively that she was not sexually

296
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,160
assaulted if they kind of write this off at the time.

297
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,160
I don't know.

298
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,960
I couldn't find any mention of this coming back again.

299
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:09,280
But I thought it was interesting that the same street, like another woman, had a very

300
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,280
close encounter with somebody.

301
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,320
On November 23rd, police announce a $500 reward.

302
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,240
They believe that there are individuals with information, but they're hesitant to come

303
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:26,160
forward so that money, they hope, will kind of loosen the tongues of those people.

304
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:31,060
On December 7th, 1988, Charles speaks with newspapers for the first time.

305
00:16:31,060 --> 00:16:36,960
So any quotes I've said beforehand were just ones that were applicable for those days or

306
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,820
times, but this is the first time he speaks.

307
00:16:39,820 --> 00:16:43,520
And so this is how the newspaper starts off the article.

308
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:48,600
Charles Rolf sat smoking camos in his untidy home Wednesday and talked about the murder

309
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,780
of his wife, Betty, four weeks ago.

310
00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:58,360
And Charles, by all accounts, is pretty lost without his wife, according to his children.

311
00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,360
Oh, God.

312
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:00,360
I know, honey.

313
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:01,360
It's me.

314
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:02,360
I know.

315
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:03,360
I knew this part would hit you.

316
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:04,360
I would be.

317
00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:05,360
Oh, God.

318
00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:10,360
Sitting in my underpants, smoking.

319
00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:11,360
Camels.

320
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:12,640
I don't smoke camels.

321
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,360
I smoke Marlbrows, but yeah, same.

322
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:16,360
Yeah.

323
00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:17,360
I don't know why.

324
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:23,360
It didn't say that he was sitting in his underpants, but that's how I imagine myself.

325
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:24,360
Just really.

326
00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:26,760
All right.

327
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,360
Charles tells the reporter he was asked to take a polygraph test by police.

328
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:35,680
He says, police, quote, asked me to take a polygraph test, which I did.

329
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,000
And after spending five hours at the police station taking that thing, a cop, I guess

330
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,480
his name was Cook, he said the results were inconclusive, end quote.

331
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,560
So at first I was like, five hours seems like a really long time to be taking a polygraph

332
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:49,560
test.

333
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,600
Like, of course it would be inconclusive.

334
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,840
But when I actually researched that, the average polygraph interview was around four hours.

335
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:56,840
So that's about right, actually.

336
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:57,840
What?

337
00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:58,840
I know.

338
00:17:58,840 --> 00:17:59,840
I was shocked by that, actually.

339
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:00,840
Oh, god.

340
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,720
I know I would just like, I can barely have my, well, you've been in the room where they're

341
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,160
like, sir, we need to take your blood pressure.

342
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,160
And they do.

343
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,640
And they're like, is he about to have a heart attack?

344
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,000
Yeah, they're like, OK, you need to breathe.

345
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,000
Yeah, you need to try.

346
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,520
You need to try it again.

347
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:21,600
Like my test would be like, like, spike the whole time, just monitoring my anxiety.

348
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:22,600
Yeah.

349
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,600
Oh.

350
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,360
So I will ask Charles to go to Madison, Wisconsin to take another polygraph on a more sensitive

351
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:30,200
machine, but he'll say no.

352
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,520
He says his children don't want him to.

353
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,640
They didn't even want him taking the first one.

354
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,440
He says, quote, I didn't have nothing to hide.

355
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,760
There's an easier way to get rid of a spouse than that.

356
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,640
You just get a divorce, end quote.

357
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,960
Which attention Chris Watts, are you listening?

358
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,320
Attention Chris Watts, paging Chris Watts.

359
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,960
Like, yeah, you just get a divorce.

360
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,320
You don't have to murder your spouse if you want to get out of your marriage.

361
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,160
That's a PSA to all married people, by the way.

362
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,160
You could just do it.

363
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,160
I did it once.

364
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,160
Yeah, you got a divorce.

365
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,000
It's all good.

366
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,160
We're still really good friends.

367
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,200
It was as far as divorces go.

368
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,200
It's a pretty good one.

369
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,200
Pretty good one.

370
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,200
Yeah.

371
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,980
Charles also mentions that he had no life insurance policy for her.

372
00:19:19,980 --> 00:19:23,680
So he has had to continue to work throughout this time.

373
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,800
Yeah, so what would be his motive?

374
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:26,800
Exactly.

375
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,120
And actually, in another interview, he says, I didn't write down the exact quote, but he

376
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:35,920
says something like, if I had a life insurance policy, I would be in jail.

377
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:36,920
Thank God for little miracles.

378
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,800
Yeah, he's like, thank God for being poor, finally.

379
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,400
Yeah, being poor paid off for once.

380
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,480
When Charles was asked his theory about what happened to Betty, he says, it may have been

381
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:47,520
some kook.

382
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,600
My wife didn't have an enemy in the world.

383
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,080
Even people who didn't like her liked her.

384
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:58,640
So February 2nd, 1989, this is about three months after Betty has been murdered.

385
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,440
Police are no closer to finding her killer than the day that she died.

386
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,400
And here is where police confirm that she was sexually assaulted.

387
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,560
But again, it's very quiet in the newspaper.

388
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,960
Police also confirm that she was beaten.

389
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:19,340
And Betty's children believe that it was a stranger as well that killed her.

390
00:20:19,340 --> 00:20:23,160
Her daughter Sheila says, quote, I think it was just some idiot.

391
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,720
That's all I can think of because my mom did not have any enemies at all.

392
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,240
I just hope someday we find out what happened, end quote.

393
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,200
The only thing that can make sense to this family is that a stranger did this because

394
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,560
nobody could, they could not find a single bad thing against Betty.

395
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,760
Nobody had a negative word against her.

396
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,800
So November 6th, 1989, this would be the one year of Betty's murder.

397
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,520
The out of Gamey County Sheriff, Tom Drutston, he says, quote,

398
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,880
it appears to us that she was assaulted physically and sexually below the bridge.

399
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,080
That's where the whole thing went down.

400
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,960
That's the part I find baffling.

401
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,400
You almost have to rule out a motor vehicle, end quote.

402
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:10,040
I thought this was interesting, this quote, because it almost sounds like he's

403
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,160
implying because we know she was beaten, she was bruised.

404
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,520
So it sounds like her body was in rough shape.

405
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,920
But it almost sounds like they have to rule out her being hit by a car first.

406
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,040
And it's like, what person could hit somebody with a car and

407
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,560
then be like, yeah, let me just murder them.

408
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,000
Well, yeah, let's see this through.

409
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,360
Yeah, like at 5 AM, 530 in the morning, at 6 AM in the morning.

410
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,000
But that's what the sheriff says.

411
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,880
You almost have to rule out a motor vehicle.

412
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,360
The sheriff also says that Charles was never a prime suspect and

413
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,520
his home has never been searched.

414
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,520
But Charles no longer lives in the home he shared with Betty.

415
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,120
Their daughter Sheila is buying it.

416
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:02,600
She says, quote, me and my husband are buying the home, my mom and dad's home.

417
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,520
He didn't want to stay living here and I didn't want someone else living here.

418
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,120
And that's Sheila and her husband that are moving in.

419
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:13,640
And at this point, Charles has moved in with another widow.

420
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:19,640
And he says, quote, I'm over it pretty much now, time heals all wounds, end quote.

421
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,360
And it should be noted that his children are most definitely not over it.

422
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:25,840
And they talk about being in therapy for it.

423
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,240
On Wednesday, November 15th, 1989.

424
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,760
I was one year old.

425
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,200
One year old.

426
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,480
One year old, baby Eli's birthday.

427
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,760
I couldn't even walk still.

428
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,680
I still had my braces on my legs.

429
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:42,400
I didn't walk until-

430
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,160
You could start walking.

431
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,240
Before they're a year old.

432
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,240
Before they're a year old, really?

433
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,360
They start like, they get mobile that-

434
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:48,640
Toddling around, I think.

435
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,440
For real?

436
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,520
I think they start like pulling up and lifting up things.

437
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:52,280
Yeah, makes sense.

438
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,720
But like, well, I guess, yeah.

439
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,960
Yeah, I think you start walking around like, ten.

440
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,720
Yeah, I worked in a preschool with one year olds, so they were all walking.

441
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,840
I don't know why I sound so shocked by that.

442
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,000
So November 15th, 1989.

443
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,480
Sheriff Drutston received an anonymous letter from a man who was parked in

444
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,280
the area where Betty's body was found the morning of the murder.

445
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,160
And he says he saw three people in the area.

446
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,200
Two of them left and one of them was walking towards the murder scene.

447
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,000
The man says the one year news story had jogged his memory and

448
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,280
that's why he was writing now.

449
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,480
And police at this time say that they have found two out of the three people

450
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,040
mentioned in the letter.

451
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,840
This is Detective Robert Nelson here.

452
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,960
He says, quote, it turns out we can substantiate that they were in the area,

453
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,320
but in a totally different time frame, end quote.

454
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,360
And this has to be pretty on top of the police work

455
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,960
to find these people a year later and substantiate a story.

456
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,160
So I'm hoping in here where they're like,

457
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,960
we found the guy riding the bike a week later and rolled him out.

458
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,880
We found these people from an anonymous letter written.

459
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:06,560
Yeah.

460
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,960
I have to believe that they did in fact find those people and

461
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,520
aren't just saying it, but I'm like, that's really fast to find these people

462
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,480
in an anonymous letter, confirm that it's these people that is being talked about in

463
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,640
the letter, but they were here at a different time.

464
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,160
I don't know.

465
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,560
Maybe Appleton has the world's best cops.

466
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,760
I don't know.

467
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:33,520
After this one year mark, no real big updates in 1990 comes,

468
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:40,120
no real updates in 1991, this would be three years in December.

469
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:44,280
Police say they are looking at the case with fresh eyes.

470
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,800
And this is Sheriff Bradley Jenning.

471
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,840
He says, quote, I think any case can be chargeable, but

472
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,000
you have to look at whether we will have a successful outcome, end quote.

473
00:24:55,120 --> 00:25:00,880
So I thought that was kind of suggesting that they had somebody that they could

474
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:07,480
maybe charge with the crime, but maybe they didn't think would hold up in trial.

475
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,880
Like there wasn't enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, but enough to charge.

476
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,160
That's what that kind of sounds like to me, but

477
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,880
again, no arrests have ever been made, no suspects.

478
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:25,920
So then no updates for 1992, 93, 94, 95, 96, the case really goes cold.

479
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,360
But in 1997, new genetic testing becomes available.

480
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:36,560
And this is the Polymerase chain reaction or a PCR test.

481
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,800
Like with COVID?

482
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,320
Different.

483
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,920
But what a PCR genetic test is,

484
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,960
it takes a small amount of DNA and

485
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,840
is able to amplify it to a large enough amount to study and compare.

486
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,800
So it's not a full DNA profile.

487
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,240
It's a magnifying glass.

488
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,200
Yeah, and it's really helpful for comparison and elimination.

489
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,920
So this testing, it was developed in the late 80s, but

490
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:13,520
by the mid 90s, it's kind of commercially available and available for use.

491
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,480
So- Wow, we love science.

492
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,680
We love science.

493
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,760
So samples taken from the crime scene are sent to a lab in California.

494
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,960
And investigators are super excited about this.

495
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,200
It's a step forward for them.

496
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,400
And from these samples that are set in, a DNA profile is developed.

497
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,960
And these test results, they come back in November of 1997.

498
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,400
So this is nine years since Betty has been murdered and

499
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,560
they have DNA for somebody.

500
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,720
But the test results come back and

501
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,080
the first person that they eliminate is Charles.

502
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,600
So Charles was their main suspect in this and it's not revealed until he's eliminated.

503
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,920
But they were like, they say their two main suspects were

504
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,640
blown out of the water by this DNA testing.

505
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,360
So Charles was one of them and they're never clear on who this other suspect is.

506
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:09,200
They never publicly name him or allude to him, but one is for sure Charles.

507
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:15,760
So I was a little suspicious after he was like, I'm pretty much over it now.

508
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,640
It's been a year man, come on.

509
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,440
But he is eliminated by this DNA.

510
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:27,280
Police at this time in 1997 with the elimination of Charles and another suspect,

511
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,760
they say that ultimately they've eliminated 25 suspects over the years.

512
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,840
None have ever been named, but police say they have been eliminated.

513
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:43,920
And then again, no updates, 98, 99, 2000, 2001, 02, 03, 04.

514
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,480
So in 2006 at 18 years,

515
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:53,760
police have resubmitted the DNA profile to see if they could refine it more.

516
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,840
This is Sergeant Gary Shortes.

517
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,760
He says, quote, the frustrating part is we have sent the DNA profile to

518
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,120
a national database and we have never gotten a hit.

519
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,320
One would think this person would have done this again and again until they got

520
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,920
caught, end quote.

521
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,000
So essentially police have sent the DNA profile into CODIS,

522
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,600
which is the national database.

523
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:22,320
So if you commit a felony for DUIs and you are arrested for it,

524
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,920
I think three DUIs is a felony at that point in a lot of states.

525
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:26,720
It is three, yes.

526
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:31,440
So that happens, let's say, when you're arrested,

527
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,440
they will take your DNA and put it into the CODIS system.

528
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,520
So even though you're arrested for drunk driving,

529
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,040
they could be like, why is your DNA coming up on these five unsolved murders?

530
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:41,920
Yeah.

531
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:42,480
So.

532
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:43,520
What's the deal?

533
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,240
What's the deal?

534
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,200
So essentially any felony, you get your DNA put into the system.

535
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,440
And so police over the years, in unsolved cases,

536
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,280
and especially as DNA has become more relevant,

537
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,480
as I'm sure our listeners are aware and know,

538
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,520
police have reran items from old crime scenes to get DNA.

539
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,120
DNA developed after years of it being cold.

540
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,560
They submit it into CODIS.

541
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:09,200
They get a hit.

542
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,520
They're like, it's this guy who was arrested for X, Y, and Z 20 years ago.

543
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,760
And now he has this.

544
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:16,960
This happens a lot.

545
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:22,560
But as of 2006, how as of 2022, since we're covering this,

546
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,560
that DNA profile has never made a hit in CODIS.

547
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,840
So it kind of goes against everything that you think about serial killers.

548
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,520
Because it's like this person, whoever did this, did it before,

549
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,760
probably wanted to do it again.

550
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,920
But they either have never gotten caught, their DNA was never able to be developed.

551
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,280
You're there a first time offender or whatever?

552
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:47,600
Yeah.

553
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:48,960
And they never did it again, though.

554
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,760
Never did it again.

555
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,560
Or just never got caught.

556
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,520
If there were other unsolved murders that was also listed in there, those would hit too.

557
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,480
And so you could pull those as well and be like, oh, you have an unsolved murder in Tennessee.

558
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,800
He was sloppy the first time, maybe the second one.

559
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,240
He was like, why I wear gloves?

560
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:09,360
But why would he?

561
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,560
They didn't have DNA back then.

562
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:12,800
Why would he think of that?

563
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,160
Not even in the 80s?

564
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,000
Well, not like this.

565
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,760
They didn't think they could touch something.

566
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,240
They didn't?

567
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,080
No, they didn't think like that.

568
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,600
In 88?

569
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:24,160
In 88?

570
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:24,880
No way.

571
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,080
They didn't think, if I touch this chair, my DNA is going to be on this chair.

572
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,000
They would think my fingerprints are going to be on this chair.

573
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,280
That's what I'm saying.

574
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,680
They would think fingerprints, but not DNA.

575
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,600
So this man's DNA has never been on any other crime scene.

576
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:44,560
Police say that whoever committed the crime was likely very angry given the level of violence and injuries.

577
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,520
Police also plan on re-interviewing the doctor who did the autopsy.

578
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:50,960
And again, this is Gary Shortaz.

579
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:58,160
He says, quote, we will go through all the photos and stuff so we can find something that was missed the first time, end quote.

580
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,480
And I thought that was kind of interesting, this like re-interviewing of the doctor,

581
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,120
because he doesn't say, so we can see if we missed something.

582
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,240
He's like, so we can find something that was missed.

583
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,760
So that's like very specific.

584
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:24,880
And I wonder if this has to go, if this goes back to like the back and forth in the initial days, weeks of her being sexually assaulted or not, if that is like what that's referring to.

585
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,440
But I thought that was an interesting quote.

586
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,400
And then again, this is her daughter, Teresa.

587
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,360
I just never give up hope and I keep hoping someday we will find out something, end quote.

588
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,600
So in 2008, it's been 20 years since Betty was murdered.

589
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,320
Police have a suspect, but it's just this DNA profile that they've developed.

590
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:57,760
And again, this is Gary Shortaz saying, he says, quote, it's amazing to me that this person hasn't been arrested for anything in the last 20 years that would have required him or her to have DNA profiled, end quote.

591
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:13,360
So again, this just goes back to this idea that somebody who committed such a violent crime, several violent crimes in this murder, never did anything that would require their DNA to be put in this national database.

592
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,400
So like that's very frustrating for investigators, her family, and I'm sure our listeners.

593
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:25,600
It was frustrating for me that this isn't, the DNA isn't popping up anywhere or linking to any other crimes.

594
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:35,200
In 2015, several of Betty's children have passed away and her remaining children have accepted that the killer will never go punished.

595
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,000
That's, that ain't right.

596
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,600
That ain't right.

597
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,760
That is where they're at.

598
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:42,080
Yeah.

599
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,000
Like it's been over 20 years.

600
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,280
This person's been living.

601
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,600
They obviously have not been arrested.

602
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,920
Like their DNA is not in the system.

603
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,800
So they're out living their life.

604
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,960
Police confirm the case is inactive.

605
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,240
It's open, but not being worked according to the sheriff's department.

606
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,840
November of 2019.

607
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,960
So this is 31 years after Betty's death.

608
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,680
Police announced they are reopening the case.

609
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:19,040
Mike Fitzpatrick, an investigator with the sheriff's office, is taking a fresh look at it and he says it's a large case file.

610
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,400
So that's always great that there is a large case file.

611
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:30,880
There's still no hits in CODIS and DNA developed from the crime scene has been used to eliminate everyone connected to Betty.

612
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,000
This implying it was likely committed by a stranger.

613
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,000
Fitzpatrick acknowledged the challenge in picking up a 31 year old case.

614
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,800
He says, quote, a lot of people who may have been witnesses may have passed away.

615
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,080
It's a possibility that whoever was responsible passed away.

616
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:46,720
End quote.

617
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,480
That makes sense.

618
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,440
Yeah.

619
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,880
So there's a chance that this person has passed away.

620
00:33:52,880 --> 00:34:00,160
And in August of 2002, police say they are still reviewing the case and are hopeful it will be solved because of the DNA.

621
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,520
Because of the DNA profile.

622
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:01,920
OK.

623
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,840
So that's August of 2002.

624
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,800
But to date, no arrests, no suspects have been named.

625
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:19,920
If you know anything about the murder of Betty Rolf, you are encouraged to call the out of gamey sheriff at 920-832-5605.

626
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:20,240
OK.

627
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:22,240
So this is also a thing I think about the DNA.

628
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:23,600
Right.

629
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,200
Since there has been no hit on CODIS.

630
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,200
So this is just my opinion.

631
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,720
This is not listed anywhere.

632
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:33,360
This is just grade A opinion.

633
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:44,880
Since there has been no hit on CODIS, no other unsolved crimes linked to this, the DNA has not led to anybody within the criminal system.

634
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:54,400
I almost wonder if the DNA that was developed is from a police officer that was investigating the crime scene that day.

635
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:54,880
OK.

636
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:55,920
That makes sense.

637
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,880
And because they weren't thinking about DNA the way they think about it today.

638
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,400
Like in 1988, the way you process a scene is not the way you would process a scene in 2022.

639
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,200
Correct.

640
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,200
So I wonder.

641
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,560
And again, I don't know.

642
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,200
I don't know what the DNA was lifted off of.

643
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,800
So it could be like something biological, in which case this is from the person who did it.

644
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:19,520
No questions.

645
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:30,000
But if it's lifted off of something that was nearby the crime scene or like perhaps off of her clothing, like I wonder if a police officer is a police officer.

646
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:36,720
Who didn't have gloves on, sneezed, I don't know, like was just mishandling something.

647
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:37,600
Sure.

648
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,960
I mean, think about how often that happens even now.

649
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,160
Yeah.

650
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,360
In cases.

651
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:43,600
Yeah.

652
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,440
Cross contamination happens.

653
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,720
And I'm sure in 1988, it happened a lot without them knowing.

654
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:58,960
So it almost seems like they need to go back while these people are still alive and get their DNA to put in the system to be like this was a police officer.

655
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:07,120
And like, yeah, to help rule them out or investigate them because police officers can be doing stuff like that.

656
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:14,800
But I think they should have like people who are in on crime scenes and like work crime scenes, like your DNA should go in as well.

657
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,240
So that way they can rule you out as like cross contamination.

658
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:26,160
You know, but that's my only thought about where this DNA could come from since nothing has hit.

659
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,240
Because I would think that whoever did this has done it again.

660
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:31,280
Yeah.

661
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,800
Betty is not linked to any other unsolved or solved crime.

662
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,080
So I don't know.

663
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:48,480
The sources for today's podcast come from the Post Crescent and the Post Crescent, they followed the story and reported on the story more than anybody.

664
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,640
So like, I just want to give a big shout out to the Post Crescent.

665
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,040
The Chippewa Herald Telegram and the Wisconsin State Journal.

666
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,600
But that's it. That is the cold case of Betty Rolf.

667
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:02,480
Wow.

668
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,520
Yeah.

669
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:09,440
Her kids sound really amazing that they continue to like fight for her.

670
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,600
Yeah. Her daughter, Teresa.

671
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,680
Yeah. I mean, I guess Teresa is.

672
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:19,840
Well, Teresa died very unexpectedly in 2015, I think.

673
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,160
And I noticed that is like when like her children are interviewed.

674
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,160
It seems like Teresa was really like holding out like the hope for everybody.

675
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,560
And after Teresa died, like the rest of her children are like, it's never going to be solved.

676
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:39,520
Like, we've come to terms with the fact like that's like when the language like really shifts is after Teresa passed.

677
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,040
It seems so solvable.

678
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:46,400
Like they have the DNA like potentially they have the DNA of the killer.

679
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:46,880
Yeah.

680
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:55,200
And it just seems so solvable and like so kooky that this woman walking to work at 6 a.m. on a Sunday.

681
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:55,920
Like this is it.

682
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,760
And it was the thing that caught me was that it was an unexpected walk.

683
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,880
So it wasn't that someone had been watching knowing she's going to walk to work today.

684
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,360
You know, it wasn't it was just because it was snowing.

685
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:08,880
She didn't like to drive in the snow.

686
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:09,360
Yeah.

687
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,840
Which also leads me to believe like maybe that person knew that about her that she wouldn't drive.

688
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,640
So I'm like it wasn't planned, but maybe it was.

689
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:19,760
Yeah.

690
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:26,720
And you know, with this DNA police have ruled out everybody in Betty's life that was close to her.

691
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,760
So I'm assuming this is coworkers, neighbors, her husband we know was ruled out.

692
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:40,000
I assume even her children at this point, like everybody that was known to Betty has been ruled out by this DNA comparison.

693
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,840
So I just like don't know what happened.

694
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,640
And at 6 a.m. on a Sunday in Appleton, Wisconsin, like it's snowing.

695
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,160
So traffic is lighter.

696
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:50,400
Sure.

697
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,360
But I'm like, you know, people are people are going to church.

698
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,080
But it's dark.

699
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,080
And you know, that's true.

700
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:02,960
It is dark, but it just seems so bold to murder somebody at 6 a.m. on a Sunday.

701
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,440
Like that is not those are not murdering hours.

702
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:05,760
Yeah.

703
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,360
It's like one or the other.

704
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,800
Like you're you're like a crazy killer or you knew this person.

705
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:13,840
You knew where to go.

706
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,120
You knew where to get away with it.

707
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,880
You knew how to do it fast.

708
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:26,960
You know, yeah, it's like either it's a random person or it's someone who knows her, like knows her well enough that she might work today or she might walk to work today.

709
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:37,760
Like that's a very specific, chancy detail that you're taking if you know this person and you know the area, you know where to like do like conduct your evil.

710
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,040
Yeah.

711
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,280
But again, if they knew her that well, in theory, they've been eliminated.

712
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:44,000
Yeah.

713
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,120
You know, that's what I'm saying.

714
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:53,040
Like, so that's where it's odd to me that it's like this random this rando or or the other thing.

715
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,200
That's where my mind is sitting.

716
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:55,440
Yeah.

717
00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:00,800
And then there's also the investigator who's like, you have to rule out a motor vehicle.

718
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:07,280
Like you almost have to rule that out because the injuries were so bad that you have to rule out that she wasn't hit by a car.

719
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,880
But even that's like, so somebody driving their car is just like, I'm killing somebody today.

720
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,320
Let me hit this person with the car.

721
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:15,360
First person I see.

722
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,440
Like, what happened to Betty?

723
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:24,080
Well, hopefully with this episode, we maybe some more answers can come to light.

724
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,040
What happened to Betty?

725
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:25,680
What happened?

726
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:26,640
Yeah, I want to know.

727
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:28,640
What the fuck happened?

728
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,160
If you are enjoying Cold and Missing, please follow us on Instagram.

729
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:39,120
We'll be posting photos from this week's case and we post photos from all our cases.

730
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,680
So follow along there from Instagram, from the link in our bio.

731
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,680
You can buy us a coffee.

732
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:51,200
We've gotten several coffees already and you can leave a love note in there too, which are always appreciated.

733
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,240
We love them.

734
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:54,800
So thank you if you've already bought us a coffee.

735
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,720
Thank you if you've thought about it.

736
00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:02,800
And then no matter where you're listening, if you could subscribe to us, rate and review five stars,

737
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:08,800
thumbs up, write a little review if you're in Apple comments or Apple podcasts,

738
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,160
whatever, whatever feels good for you.

739
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:17,360
It's a great way to support a small podcast like us, a small queer podcast like us.

740
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,400
So yeah, that's all I've got.

741
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:22,080
That's it.

742
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:22,800
That's it for me.

743
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,560
I think I've said anything, honey bun.

744
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:24,960
All right.

745
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:25,760
Well, I love you.

746
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,240
Love you too.

747
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:27,600
And we love you.

748
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,440
Have a great week, y'all.

749
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:36,640
Stay safe, y'all.