Cold and Missing: Betty Rolf and Delphi Updates

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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.

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All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages and is intended for a mature

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audience.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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Welcome back everyone.

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Welcome back.

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This is Cold and Missing.

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I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin.

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I am your co-host, Eli Sulkowski.

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And it's the end of 2022.

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We're right at the end here.

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Yeah.

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New Year's are coming up if you celebrate Christmas, but New Year is definitely coming

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up for everybody on whatever the calendar is called that we use.

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I don't know what it's called.

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Because you know how there's like Chinese New Year and then like, yeah, there's like

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other New Year's, but the big one's coming up.

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All right.

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Just where we are in time.

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And this week, again, if you've been listening to our past episodes, it's just a little bit

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of a different, no new case, but we do have some really great updates about cases we have

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covered.

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So we're going to get into that this week.

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So strap in and we'll give you the details.

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So the first case we wanted to update you on is Betty Rolf.

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We've mentioned last week that there was an update, but we covered Betty's story about

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three weeks ago now.

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And just in case you haven't listened to that case, you can stop here, go back and listen

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to it.

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But just a quick synopsis.

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Betty was a 60-year-old woman in November of 1988, and it was the first big snowstorm.

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And Betty did not like to drive in the snow, so she was going to walk to her place of employment

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around 6 a.m.

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And it was only 10 blocks from her house, and it was on the same street she lived on,

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so a very easy walk by all measures, and what should have been a short walk.

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But Betty never made it to work, and the next day her body was found by police after her

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family had reported her missing.

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As we talked about in our episode, they had developed a DNA profile for the suspect, and

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it had been entered into CODIS several times, no hits, no updates.

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Can you tell me what CODIS means again?

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So CODIS stands for Combined DNA Index System.

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Oh, got it, got it.

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CODIS, I was, okay.

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Yeah, CODIS.

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So it had been put in the CODIS database several times, no hits, until recently, and here's

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where the big case update comes in.

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So on December 8th of 2022, just a couple weeks ago, police in Eatonville, Washington,

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arrested 66-year-old Gene C. Meyer, charging him with first-degree murder and first-degree

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sexual assault with a dangerous weapon for the 1988 murder of Betty Rolf.

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So in 1988, Gene would have been 32 years old, and he lived about a mile away from the

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crime scene, so he's definitely in the area.

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And Gene has had run-ins with police in Wisconsin and Washington, but he never had a...

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What kind of run-ins?

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They didn't get into them that I could find.

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I couldn't find any reports of what they had been, but it wasn't anything serious enough

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for his DNA to be collected and put into the CODIS system.

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So some questions that we had from the podcast, from our episode when I was researching it,

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initially newspapers reported that Betty had been strangled, but then they walked that

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back and said it's asphyxiation, and that is how she died, and that is how police were

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officially calling it.

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But now we have confirmation that she was strangled by a ligature, and then we were

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also...

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Does ligature always...

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Does it mean a rope?

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It could mean a rope, but it's usually just...

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It could also be...

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It could be like a shoestring.

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It could be a shoestring.

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It could be a cord from an electronic.

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It's just something that could be used to tie and is flexible.

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And then we also were curious where the DNA had come from that they had been able to develop.

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So it was not clear until this update of December 8th, but up until then it was not clear where

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the DNA had come from, if it had come from something nearby the scene, like a bottle,

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for example, or if it had come from a biological sample.

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So we do know now that the DNA came from swabs done during her autopsy, and it is semen that

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they got the DNA from.

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Because we had questions about if a police officer had mishandled something at the crime

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scene and perhaps his DNA had cross-contaminated, which is why there was no hit in CODIS.

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But with this new information, it seems very obvious that the DNA is directly from the

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crime.

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So how did police get here?

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In 2019, police began doing a familiar DNA research.

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So that's basically...

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If you've ever taken a DNA test to know your ancestry and uploaded it to the databases

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to see distance cousins you may have that you've never met or anything like that, those

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databases are public information.

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And police don't need warrants to go into there because they have already been provided

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and put up online.

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And this is how they were able to locate the Golden State Killer was through familiar DNA.

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So in this case with Betty, they were able to narrow it down to two brothers, that being

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Gene Mayer and then his brother, who is not named, but is just referred by his initials

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as CM, but we'll call him Gene's brother here.

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So Gene's brother fully cooperates with police when he's contacted and he provides his DNA

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willingly, which rules him out and we're just left with Gene as a suspect.

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But Gene's brother tells police that he believes his brother is dead.

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Nobody has had contact with him in a long time.

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And then Gene's niece...

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So I'm unclear if this would be Gene's brother's daughter or if this is a different niece altogether

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in the family.

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But Gene's niece said that sometime after 1986, her mother received a call from Gene

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telling her goodbye and thanks for everything.

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And then the niece continued to say that her mother was very distraught about this phone

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call and very upset about it.

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And the only thing she would say in reference to this was, I have a secret and it's going

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to my grave.

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Police locate Gene in Washington.

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He's alive and they work with local police to get a swab of DNA from Gene.

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And they do this not by talking to Gene directly, but they follow him around and they swab the

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handle of his truck door.

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And that's how they get his DNA.

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So they never talk to him.

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They swab his truck door and it's a match.

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And that's legal?

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That's legal.

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So if you're out drinking something like a bottle of water and you throw that bottle of water away,

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somebody can come right after you grab it, put it in a bag and test your DNA.

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And that happens a lot because once you throw something away, it's public trash.

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It's public property at that point.

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Yeah, it's public trash.

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So Betty's family, they are obviously very grateful that he's been caught.

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And if you listen to our episode, we kind of go over the family and watch their hope

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kind of die in this case.

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They talk so hopeful for years about it.

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And then over the last 10 years, they're like, we don't know if it's ever going to get solved

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at this point.

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We don't even know if this person is still alive.

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But Betty's granddaughter, she's quoted as saying, I'm just so grateful he's been caught.

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This has been such a long time.

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I didn't know if we would ever see this day and I'm grateful he's still alive, end quote.

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Because the family has questions.

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They want answers and only this guy can really answer them.

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So as of today, Gene is facing life in prison plus 20 years for the charges against him.

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And he's currently being held in Washington on a $2 million bond waiting for extradition

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to Wisconsin.

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No one had that money to get him out?

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Nobody had the $2 million.

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So that is where we are with Betty Rolf.

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But really great for this family.

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Love to see these cold cases get solved and not be forgotten.

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Yeah.

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Like, what a, I don't know.

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It's wild to me that we just had the episode and that's like, I'm not, obviously I'm not

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saying like, we helped, you know, but just that, that's like crazy.

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Yeah, it was almost like that with Delphi too.

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It was like we did it and then like two weeks later there was a break in the case.

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So maybe it's the beginning of the luck.

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Not even that.

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Just like, I think there's proof in like literally just continuing to talk about these things.

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Because like, it's hard to stay in the dark when the light is brought to it, you know?

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So the next case that we wanted to update you all on is the Delphi, Indiana case.

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So this is the murder of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi, Indiana.

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And we brought you a small update episode previously, but we didn't really know much

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at that point.

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We knew who had been arrested.

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We knew that he had lived in Delphi and we knew that he worked at the CVS in town, but

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that was really all that we knew.

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But recently the presiding judge on the case, they said, quote, the court finds the public

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interest is not served by prohibiting access to the probable cause affidavit.

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So she has unsealed it.

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And in it we learn Richard Allen is being arrested for count one murder, which is a

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felony.

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And in it it says that he did kill another human being while committing or attempting

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to commit kidnapping of both of the girls.

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So that is also part of it, is an attempted kidnapping.

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So those are officially the charges that we have.

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And now I'm going to get into the probable cause affidavit.

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So this is what the evidence the police have against him at this point, or at least as

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much as they needed to get the arrest warrant.

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So obviously I hope not everything is in here, but there's potentially more that we don't

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know that the police have.

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They say through interviews, reviews of electronic records and review of the video of Hoosier

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Harvest Store, investigators believe that Abby and Libby were dropped off across from

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the Mears Farm at 1.49 p.m. on February 13th, 2017.

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The Mears Farm is located on the north side of County Road 300 north near an entrance

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to the trail.

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So this is all things we knew previously.

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But we do get like firm timelines on here, which we didn't have before.

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So it goes on to say, a video from Libby's phone shows that at 2:13, Abby Williams and

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Libby German encountered a male subject on the southeast portion of the high bridge.

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The male ordered the girls, quote, guys down the hill.

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No witnesses saw them after this time and no outgoing communications were found on Libby's

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phone after this time.

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Their bodies were discovered on February 14th, 2017.

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The video recovered from Libby's phone shows Abby walking southeast on the high bridge

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while a male subject wearing a dark jacket and jeans walks behind her.

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As the male subject approaches Abby and Libby, one of the victims mentions a gun.

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Near the end of the video, a male is seen and heard telling the girls, guys down the

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hill.

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The girls begin to proceed down the hill and the video ends.

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A still photograph was taken from the video and guys down the hill audio was released

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to the public to assist investigators in finding this guy.

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And then this is a new part that we learned through this.

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So Abby and Libby deaths were ruled as homicide.

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Their clothes were found in Deer Creek belonging to both of them, south of where their bodies

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were located.

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There was also a 40 caliber unspent round less than two feet away from Libby's body

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between Abby and Libby.

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The round was unspent and had extraction marks on it.

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The probable cause goes in to some witness statements.

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So there were three other juvenile girls there that day on the bridge and on the trail system

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who believe they saw Richard Allen or somebody who could potentially fit his description.

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So all of the names of the witnesses in this have been redacted.

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So for the juvenile girls, I just have them labeled as one, two, and three.

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The girl number one described the male they saw as quote, kind of creepy and advised he

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was wearing quote, like blue jeans and like really light blue jacket and his hair was

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gray, maybe a little brown and he did not really show his face, end quote.

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She advised the jacket was a duck canvas type of jacket.

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And then the second girl advised that she said hi to the male, but he just glared at

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them.

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She recalled him being an all black and had something covering his mouth.

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She described him as quote, not very tall with a bigger build.

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She did say he was not bigger than 5'10".

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She advised he was wearing a black hoodie, black jeans, and black boots.

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She stated his hands were in his pocket.

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And so girl number three, she actually took pictures that day, which helps kind of time

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when these girls were on the trail a little bit.

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We don't fully know when they were there, but they seem to have been leaving at around

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1.26, which was roughly about 20 minutes before Abby and Libby were dropped off.

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And so girl number three, she took these pictures and she says that they encountered the man

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who matched the description of the photograph taken from Libby's phone.

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She described the man on the trail as wearing a blue or black windbreaker jacket.

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She advised the jacket had a collar and he had his hood up from his clothing underneath

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his jacket.

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She advised he was wearing baggy jeans and was taller than her.

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She advised her head came up approximately to his shoulder.

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She said that second girl, girl number two, said hi to the man and he said nothing back.

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She stated that he was walking with a purpose like he knew where he was going and that his

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hands were in his pocket and he kept his face down.

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She said she did not get a good look at his face, but believed him to be a white male.

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And the girl said that they encountered him when they were walking over the Freedom Bridge,

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which is another old railroad track that has been built more recently that's part of this

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00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:36,160
trail system, but it's not the same bridge that Abby and Libby were on.

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00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:42,200
So I think this part about the girls is really interesting because their descriptions of

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00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:48,040
the man they see are all kind of different, which I think is just a great example of how

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00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:53,080
witness statements aren't always that credible because these were three girls there at the

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00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:58,000
same time that saw the same person but describe him wearing different things.

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00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,400
Like one girl says he was in all black.

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00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,600
The first and third girl are more consistent, but there are still differences in it.

240
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,760
And I would say the third girl is kind of most on the money with the image we all have

241
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,200
of this guy on the bridge.

242
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,000
But I thought that was really interesting, just the variation in how they described what

243
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,240
he was wearing.

244
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,040
So then another woman, she is also at the bridge.

245
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,220
She's not a juvenile.

246
00:16:23,220 --> 00:16:24,400
She is an adult.

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00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,960
I just have her in here as Jane Doe as my notes.

248
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:36,880
And she is, I think, kind of an important witness because she gets there just like five

249
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,640
minutes, less than five minutes before Abby and Libby are dropped off.

250
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,900
So she's kind of on the trails at the exact same time as them.

251
00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:50,440
And she says as she's traveling in, she saw four young girls, four juvenile girls walking

252
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:56,480
on the Freedom Bridge, which is the bridge I just mentioned, not the High Bridge.

253
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,280
When she gets there, she says there's no other cars parked in that parking lot to where you

254
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,400
can get on the trails where Abby and Libby are ultimately dropped off just a few minutes

255
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:06,400
later.

256
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,720
So she doesn't see any other cars at that time.

257
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:14,640
So she starts walking the trails heading towards High Bridge and advised that she saw a male

258
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,360
matching the one from Libby's phone.

259
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:22,180
She described the male she saw as a white male wearing blue jeans and a blue jean jacket.

260
00:17:22,180 --> 00:17:27,680
She advised he was standing on the first platform of the High Bridge, approximately 50 feet

261
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,460
away from her.

262
00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:33,920
She said that when she got to the bridge, she turned around and continued her walk.

263
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:39,520
And about halfway between the bridge and the parking area where her car was, she passed

264
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,280
two girls walking towards High Bridge.

265
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,280
She believed the girls were Abby and Libby.

266
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:52,000
And the videos that we have and the time records that we have from everybody's phone involved

267
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,100
in this, we know that the girls were dropped off at 1.46.

268
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:59,000
So this would make sense that she saw Abby and Libby as they were walking to the High

269
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,220
Bridge.

270
00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:04,280
And according to this woman, this man was already on the bridge.

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00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,960
And when she says the first platform, from my memory, there's like three or maybe four

272
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:17,320
like little square sections that kind of jut off where you can kind of sit and like let

273
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:18,960
your legs hang over.

274
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:19,960
Or you used to be able to.

275
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,760
I don't know if you're able to anymore.

276
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,620
So I believe that's what she's referring to.

277
00:18:23,620 --> 00:18:27,640
So he was near the beginning of where you would walk on this train track.

278
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:33,000
So this woman, she also says that as she was leaving the trail, so she gets in her car,

279
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,700
she just walked there and back.

280
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:39,160
She noted there was a vehicle parked in an odd manner at the Old Child Protective Services

281
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,460
Building.

282
00:18:40,460 --> 00:18:45,120
She said it was not odd for the vehicle to be parked there, but she noticed it was odd

283
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:49,060
because of the way it was parked, because it was backed into the building.

284
00:18:49,060 --> 00:18:55,600
And then another tip that investigators received from a man, a man who was driving that area

285
00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:02,560
around that time on February 13th, 2017, he said he observed a purple PT Cruiser or a

286
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:08,960
small SUV type vehicle on the south side of the Old Child Protective Services Building.

287
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,480
And he said that it seemed as if somebody had backed in to conceal the license plate.

288
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,080
So they both noticed this vehicle that's like parked kind of funny.

289
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,640
So this man and the woman, police have them both draw diagrams of where the car was parked

290
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,860
and they both put it in the same place.

291
00:19:23,860 --> 00:19:29,360
And then another man also comes forward with a tip that said he remembered seeing a smaller

292
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:36,140
dark colored car parked at the CPS Building, but he described it as being a smart car.

293
00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:42,440
So we have some really wildly different statements about what kind of car it is.

294
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:49,820
So it goes from a small SUV PT Cruiser to possibly being a smart car, which are very

295
00:19:49,820 --> 00:19:51,080
different in shape.

296
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,840
So that's a question I have.

297
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,080
Is there another car that came switched out?

298
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,960
Did they see the same car?

299
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:01,640
That's really odd to me.

300
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,920
And then the last witness, altogether there's seven witnesses mentioned in this.

301
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,600
The last witness, it's another woman with a tip from February 13th.

302
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:17,100
And she says that as she's driving on the road that leads into the trailhead to where

303
00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:22,720
you can park and everything, she says that she saw a male subject who was wearing a blue

304
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,060
colored jacket and blue jeans and was muddy and bloody.

305
00:20:27,060 --> 00:20:32,240
She further stated that it appeared he had gotten into a fight and she was driving around

306
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:33,580
four o'clock.

307
00:20:33,580 --> 00:20:41,880
So this all happens in the range of three hours, more or less, depending on these witness

308
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:42,880
statements.

309
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:48,600
Witnesses also have talked to other people who were on the trail after 2 13 that day,

310
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,720
which is when the video cuts off.

311
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,360
That's a very significant time in this case.

312
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:59,640
But through interviews, none of those individuals encountered the male subjects who was seen

313
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,960
in the video or Abby and Libby.

314
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,420
So they were not seen again after 2 13 PM.

315
00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:12,200
So when they interviewed Richard Allen in 2017, he says that he was on the trail between

316
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,680
3 30 and 3 30.

317
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,280
He parked at the old Farm Bureau building and walked to the Freedom Bridge.

318
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:23,200
Now, the old Farm Bureau building doesn't exist and has never existed in Delphi.

319
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,560
So police believe that he is referring to the old CPS building.

320
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:28,720
It was abandoned at this time.

321
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:29,720
No one was using it.

322
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,520
So it was kind of normal for cars to be parked there, but it's since been leveled.

323
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:34,860
It's not there anymore.

324
00:21:34,860 --> 00:21:39,180
So he says that while he was at Freedom Bridge, he saw three females.

325
00:21:39,180 --> 00:21:42,960
He noted that one of them was taller and had brown or black hair.

326
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,080
He did not remember descriptions for all of them, nor did he speak to them.

327
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,840
He walked from Freedom Bridge to High Bridge.

328
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,160
He did not see anybody, although he said he was watching a stock ticker on his phone as

329
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,160
he walked.

330
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,120
He stated there were vehicles parked at the High Bridge trailhead.

331
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,720
However, he did not pay attention to them and he did not take any photos or videos on

332
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,120
his phone.

333
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:14,000
And in 2017, police say that Richard Allen owned two vehicles, a 2016 black Ford Focus

334
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,200
and a 2006 gray Ford 500.

335
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:26,320
Investigators observed a vehicle that resembled Allen's 2016 Ford Focus on the Hoosier Harvest

336
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:33,360
Store video at 1.27 p.m. traveling towards the trails, which kind of coincides with his

337
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:34,360
statement.

338
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:38,560
He was there around 1.30 and this video could place his car there.

339
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,960
Investigators note witnesses described the vehicle parked at the former CPS building

340
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,960
as a PT Cruiser, a small SUV or smart car.

341
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,840
Investigators believe those descriptions are similar in nature to a 2016 Ford Focus, which

342
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,200
I'm going to say is a stretch.

343
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,240
So police keep investigating.

344
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:06,920
So they talked to him in 2017 and they didn't talk to him again till October 13th, 2022,

345
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,920
when he was interviewed again.

346
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,880
And they asked him about his time on February 13th.

347
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:18,840
And he said that he saw juvenile girls on the trail near the Freedom Bridge and that

348
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,760
he went to High Bridge.

349
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,720
Richard Allen further stated he went out onto the High Bridge to watch the fish.

350
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,760
Here in his statement, he said he walked out to the first platform on the bridge.

351
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,600
He stated he then walked back, sat on a bench on the trail and then left.

352
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,280
He stated he parked his car on the side of an old building.

353
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,960
He told investigators that he was wearing blue jeans and a blue or black Carhartt jacket

354
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:43,960
with a hood.

355
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,080
He advised he may have been wearing some type of hood covering as well.

356
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,560
He further claimed he saw no one else except for the juvenile girls he saw near Freedom

357
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:53,560
Bridge.

358
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,680
And he told investigators that he did own firearms in his home.

359
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,800
And his wife also confirmed that he did have guns and knives in the residence and he did

360
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,720
still own a blue Carhartt jacket.

361
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,840
So all of those things were in his possession, but not illegal.

362
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:15,280
So on October 13th, investigators get a search warrant for Richard Allen's home.

363
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:22,360
And among the items collected, officers locate jackets, boots, knives, firearms, including

364
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:26,560
a specific model, a.40 caliber pistol.

365
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:33,320
The pistol is important and the gun is important because between Abby and Libby, police found

366
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,440
an unspent bullet with extraction marks on it.

367
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:43,200
And police confiscate this.40 caliber gun because it matches the bullet.

368
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,040
And they send it to the laboratory for ballistic testings.

369
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,800
And it comes back with sufficient agreement is related to the significant duplication

370
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:57,760
of random saturated impressed marks as evidenced by the correspondent of pattern or combinations

371
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,400
of patterns of surface contours.

372
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:06,080
The interpretation of ID is subject in nature and based on relative scientific research

373
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,280
and the reporting and examiner's training and experience.

374
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:14,400
So that's like a really fancy way for the laboratory to say that like it was a match,

375
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,600
but it is based on this one person's experience and training in the area.

376
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:25,300
Because ballistic testing has really kind of come under scrutiny recently in courts.

377
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:26,840
It's being challenged a lot.

378
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,600
Some argue that it is more of an art than a science.

379
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,680
And so you can't lean as heavily on it.

380
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:39,320
It's more circumstantial, but that seems to be the big piece of evidence and like the

381
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,800
nail in the coffin for them to arrest Richard Allen, because he says that he has owned the

382
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,520
gun since 2001 and he never let anyone else borrow it.

383
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:54,040
And so basically the state's case is kind of summarized by these witness statements

384
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,040
and by the gun, the unspent bullet.

385
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,920
And I had to really look up what an unspent bullet was because I wasn't quite sure if

386
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:07,400
it was something that had fired out of the barrel, but maybe didn't like was a dud, like

387
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,680
didn't explode or like impact or anything like that.

388
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:17,280
But just an unspent bullet, it means it was loaded into the gun, but it was never fired.

389
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:23,460
So the marks on it is really just like it being pulled up into the chamber.

390
00:26:23,460 --> 00:26:29,920
So it doesn't even have the striation marks of going down the barrel on it.

391
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:37,040
And Richard Allen's defense attorney has also released a statement once the affidavit was

392
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:43,040
released and in it he says that Rick is a 50 year old man who has never been arrested

393
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,460
or accused of any crime in his life.

394
00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:52,680
And he says that the police did not contact Rick after Abby and Libby's death, but Rick

395
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:58,160
contacted the police to say that he was on the trails that day to try to offer any assistance

396
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,640
to the police of maybe what he might have seen or done that day.

397
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,660
And his lawyer says without Rick coming forward, the police probably would not have had any

398
00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:10,160
way of knowing that he was on the trail that day.

399
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,920
He says Rick tried to assist the investigators and told the police that he did recall seeing

400
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,760
three younger girls on the trail that day.

401
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,360
His contact with the girls were brief and of little significance.

402
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:25,840
And the next time Rick heard from the police was in October of 2022.

403
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:31,040
This was approximately two weeks before a contested sheriff's election and within days

404
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,760
of a federal lawsuit filed against the Carroll County Sheriff's Office by its former second

405
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,140
in command, Michael Thomas.

406
00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:44,280
In the lawsuit, Thomas claims that he had made suggestions and offered assistance in

407
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,240
the investigation of a high profile child homicide investigation, but those suggestions

408
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,300
and offers were rejected by the sheriff.

409
00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:56,460
Thomas further claimed that the sheriff and others in the department feared that disagreements

410
00:27:56,460 --> 00:28:01,660
with Thomas would become publicized as a result of the political campaign for sheriff.

411
00:28:01,660 --> 00:28:09,600
Thomas claims in the suit that he was ultimately demoted and replaced by Tony LeGate, who later

412
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,920
that year in 2022 would become sheriff.

413
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,000
I think I'm butchering his last name, it might be LeGate, but LeGate.

414
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,200
And in this lawsuit that came just a couple of days before the arrest, he also claims

415
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,940
that he was removed from these cases kind of unjustly.

416
00:28:24,940 --> 00:28:31,380
So Rick's lawyer also says in the five plus years, Rick volunteered to provide information

417
00:28:31,380 --> 00:28:32,380
to the police.

418
00:28:32,380 --> 00:28:37,300
He did not get rid of his vehicle or his guns and he did not throw out his clothing.

419
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:38,940
He did not alter his appearance.

420
00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:41,660
He did not relocate himself to another community.

421
00:28:41,660 --> 00:28:45,860
He did what any innocent man would do and continued with his normal routine.

422
00:28:45,860 --> 00:28:50,580
The probable cause affidavit seems to suggest that a single magic bullet is proof of Rick's

423
00:28:50,580 --> 00:28:51,580
guilt.

424
00:28:51,580 --> 00:28:56,900
It is premature to engage in any detailed discussion regarding the ferocity of this

425
00:28:56,900 --> 00:28:59,580
evidence until more discovery is received.

426
00:28:59,580 --> 00:29:05,380
And he also says that they wanted, they didn't want any of this to remain out of the public

427
00:29:05,380 --> 00:29:06,380
eye.

428
00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:11,140
They want it all out there because they think it will help his defense because they truly

429
00:29:11,140 --> 00:29:13,060
believe he's innocent.

430
00:29:13,060 --> 00:29:16,860
I mean, as a good defense lawyer should, they should believe their client if they are saying

431
00:29:16,860 --> 00:29:20,820
they are innocent, which Richard Allen is saying he is innocent at this time.

432
00:29:20,820 --> 00:29:26,780
Richard Allen's lawyer goes on to say, prosecutors mentioned at the last hearing his belief that

433
00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:32,060
others may have been involved in the killing, yet there is no mention in the probable cause

434
00:29:32,060 --> 00:29:35,760
affidavit about a second suspect involved in the killing.

435
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,300
And that's true.

436
00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:41,620
It doesn't mention anywhere in the arrest warrant that there was somebody else involved,

437
00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:46,740
but police really heavily suggested that and have kind of suggested that from the beginning

438
00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:49,180
as we discussed in our update episode.

439
00:29:49,180 --> 00:29:54,820
And his lawyer also talks about his Ford Focus is not in any way similar to the distinctive

440
00:29:54,820 --> 00:29:58,740
looks of a PT Cruiser or smart car that were described by the witnesses.

441
00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:03,860
So he kind of points to these really shifting car descriptions.

442
00:30:03,860 --> 00:30:09,900
And at this time, this is all the information that we have on the case is this affidavit

443
00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:14,620
that was released with what the police believe is probable cause to arrest him.

444
00:30:14,620 --> 00:30:19,120
And so hopefully there is more, hopefully they have a really strong case to arrest him

445
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,820
and bring all of this to trial.

446
00:30:21,820 --> 00:30:24,900
The judge ultimately since then has issued a gag order.

447
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:29,220
So I really don't think we're going to hear much about this until he's supposed to have

448
00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:38,180
a bail hearing February 17th, 2023, which is a significant time in the case because

449
00:30:38,180 --> 00:30:42,500
that will be the six year anniversary of the girl's murder.

450
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:48,700
So I think that week is going to be very high emotionally in Delphi with the anniversary

451
00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:55,260
coming and going and then a bail hearing because his lawyers are arguing that he's innocent.

452
00:30:55,260 --> 00:31:02,140
He should be able to make bail to get out of jail to wait his trial and prosecutors

453
00:31:02,140 --> 00:31:06,660
want to keep them in there because they believe he is the murderer and that he could potentially

454
00:31:06,660 --> 00:31:07,660
run.

455
00:31:07,660 --> 00:31:11,020
So there's going to be hearing about this potentially February of 2023.

456
00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:15,380
So we'll bring you updates on that, but that's really it.

457
00:31:15,380 --> 00:31:18,540
That's all I have for you as far as updates go.

458
00:31:18,540 --> 00:31:22,500
We will be taking a short break next week.

459
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:27,700
It's Christmas and we're going to go ahead and take the holiday to relax, but we're going

460
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:34,060
to come back January 2nd, first Monday in 2023, right back at it with more cold cases

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and unresolved missing person cases.

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Awesome.

463
00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:38,620
Thanks for the wrap up.

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And of course, as always like and subscribe wherever you're at, wherever you like to listen

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00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:48,460
to your podcasts, please follow us on cold and missing on Instagram.

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00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:53,320
And from there we post lots of photos from the cases we cover and we also have links

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00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,300
in the bio to where you can buy us a coffee if you want to tip us.

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00:31:57,300 --> 00:32:01,740
And also if you have any cases that you want us to cover that feel important to you or

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you don't think have gotten enough media attention, please feel free to email us at cold and missing

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at gmail.com and we would love to work with you.

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So have a good week and stay safe.

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Y'all.