Transcript
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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.
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All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
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Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages.
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Listener discretion is advised.
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I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.
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And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski.
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And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover cold cases and missing person cases.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing.
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Welcome back everyone.
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I'm your host, Ali.
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And I'm your co-host, Eli.
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We're on episode 51 today.
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That we are.
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And I've seen you researching all week, so you want to share with us what you have?
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I do.
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And I'm going to jump into that in one second, but I did just want to give a quick heads
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up as we zero in on one year of the podcast.
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We are going to be updating our cover art across our social media, in the podcast player,
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just giving it a little jushy.
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A little jush.
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A fresh look.
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A fresh look.
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So I just want to plant that in your ear now that this time next month, if you see a different
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picture in your podcast player.
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Graphics.
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I'm going to be making new graphics for the podcast.
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Eli's making some new graphics.
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But we'll have a totally different look, very different from what you're used to.
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Nothing too like, well, you'll see it when you see it.
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But yeah, we're going to have a new look.
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So we wanted to make note of the change before it happens, so that way you know to keep listening,
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keep your eye out for us.
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We're still releasing episodes every Monday, so we're there.
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You might just have to look for a different picture.
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And with that, let's keep going.
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Yeah, let's get into episode 51.
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So today we have a missing persons case, and just at the top I wanted to give a content
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warning that this case does involve several mentions of sexual assault.
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Today we are talking about the missing person case of Hang Lee.
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And this takes place in January of 1993 in St. Paul, Minnesota.
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But first a little bit about Hang.
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Hang is 17 years old in 1993.
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She was born October 9th, 1975, and she would be 47 years old today.
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When Hang was a child, her family lived in a refugee camp as they were from Laos.
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Eventually, the Lee family settled in St. Paul, Minnesota.
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Hang's family are Hmong, so Hang spoke both Hmong and English.
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In 1993, Hang is a senior at Highland Park High School and has dreams of becoming an
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author to chronicle the Hmong experience in America.
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Hang planned to attend the University of Minnesota that fall and had been saving money for her
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tuition.
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Hang loves heavy metal.
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When you think of an 80s hairband, that was absolutely the look that Hang rocked.
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She had dyed her bangs red and teased out her hair.
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Since she listened to heavy metal and smoked cigarettes, this earned her a reputation of
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a quote unquote bad kid in her community.
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But Hang was anything but.
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She was a loyal and true friend who trusted people quickly.
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She had started working at the age of 13 at the Wong Cafe in order to help her family
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with the bills and save for college.
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She was a bookworm who loved romance novels.
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She was a dependable and good kid.
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And now a timeline of events.
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On Tuesday, January 12, 1993, Hang gets a call from her friend, Kia Lee.
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No relation.
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Kia also goes by Nikki, so that's what I'll call her throughout the podcast today.
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Nikki had called Hang to see if she was interested in working for her boss, Mark Steven Wallace.
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He ran a paint and decorating business near Iroquois Avenue and Stillwater Avenue in St.
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Paul.
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She worked as a receptionist for him for about a month, and she thought it was strange she
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was looking to hire someone else since he never seemed to have any customers.
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She told police that the only people that seemed to come into the business were young
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teenage boys.
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Wallace and the boys would often disappear behind a locked door in his office where Nikki
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had no idea what they were doing.
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Hang was looking for another job at this time to help save for college and continue to help
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her family out.
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She was one of 13 siblings, and money was tight.
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Her current job only paid $7 an hour, so she was very interested in finding another one.
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Hang called her current boss, Eileen, at the Wong Cafe to tell her that she had a job interview
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and she wouldn't be coming in that night since she was scheduled to work.
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Hang got ready to leave between 6 and 7 p.m. that evening.
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It was a snowy day, but true to her metal rock look, Hang was only wearing a black t-shirt
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that said Skid Row on the back, a light black leather jacket, black pants, and tennis shoes,
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and she had on lots of jewelry, including two silver bracelets.
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She told her brother Koua that she was leaving and asked him to lock the door behind her.
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She did not have a key to the house.
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This was something that they did often.
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Hang would leave for the night and when she needed to get let back into the house, she
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would knock and Koua would let her back in.
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Before she left, she told Koua, quote, if I don't come back, please come looking for
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me.
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I don't trust Nikki, end quote.
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Now I want to take a minute here to talk about Mark Steven Wallace.
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Without burying the lead too much, he is the prime suspect in this missing person case.
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In 1993, Mark Steven Wallace is 30 years old and he had recently been released from
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prison after serving time on a rape charge.
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In 1988, he was convicted of sexually assaulting a woman but was linked to four other attacks.
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This was actually his second rape conviction.
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The first one happened in 1984, but we're just going to talk about the 1987 attacks
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here.
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In 1987, a series of sexual assaults were happening.
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All of the women had had their legs tied so that way they were forced open.
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All of them were gagged and all of them had their eyes and mouth taped shut.
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Some were covered with blankets during the attacks.
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He was caught because he had called a woman offering her a job at a radio station.
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The woman set up a time to meet with Wallace, but she became suspicious.
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Some documents with her personal information had been stolen out of one of her teacher's
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cars recently.
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The woman called police who sent an undercover police officer to meet with Wallace.
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Police arrested him and he admitted to investigators that he had planned to tie the woman up with
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shoestrings that he had in his pocket.
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He also admitted to police that he was the person who stole the documents out of the
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car and was calling women using the numbers he found with the hopes of assaulting them.
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He was sent to jail for three years but was released early in June of 1991.
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That's when he started his painting and interior decorating business.
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Nikki, Hang's friend, worked for Wallace from December of 1992 to March of 1993, so
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just four months.
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She said during this time she never saw any other customers or employees, just the teenage
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boys.
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Wallace also talked to Nikki about becoming a model and took pictures of her promising
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to introduce her to someone who could give her a job.
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This never happened and Nikki has no idea what happened to the pictures.
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She also said that one morning she came into work around 9am and Wallace gave her a drink
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telling her it would help her from becoming nauseated by the paint fumes.
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She drank it and said she started to feel numb and lost feeling in her hands.
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Wallace told her it was normal and to keep drinking.
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He even gives her a second glass.
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Nikki gets sick and throws up.
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She eventually is overwhelmed by sleepiness and lays down on the ground to sleep.
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She doesn't wake up until seven hours later at 4pm that day and she's wrapped in a blanket
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when she wakes up.
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Nikki will come up a lot in our story and I just think it's important to remember
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that she is also a teenage girl who appears to have been a victim of Mark Steven Wallace
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as well.
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So back into the timeline of the night that Hang disappeared.
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There's no clear reports on who exactly Hang left with that night.
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I believe that Wallace and Nikki picked her up.
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Wallace started that night by driving a white pickup truck but at some point Nikki says
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that he switches into a 1988 Chevrolet Cavalier that is either tan or silver.
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It's unclear when or why he switches cars.
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Wallace drove around with Nikki in the front seat and Hang in the back seat.
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He talked about taking the girls to a casino when Nikki reminded him that they had school
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the next day.
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Wallace then drops the girls off.
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He lived closer to Hang so he dropped Nikki off first.
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When she got to her home she saw Wallace pull away and Hang was climbing out of the back
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seat and into the front seat.
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Nikki believed that Wallace was going to drop Hang off at her home.
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Koua, Hang's brother, wakes up around 1am that night and realizes that he hadn't woken
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up for his sister to be let in.
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He hops up thinking he might have slept through her knocking and looks outside.
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It was snowing that night and Kua thought that if Hang had been home she would have
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left footprints in the snow but there weren't any.
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Koua says quote, The snow was coming down pretty hard and I didn't see footprints from the
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parking lot.
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I got up to see if I missed her or if she was going to be on her way.
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I did have a bad feeling that kind of crawled up my neck but of course I was still a kid
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and I didn't know what to do."
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So the next day, this is Wednesday, January 13th, Koua wakes up and there's still no sign
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of Hang.
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He decides to head straight to the source and track down Nikki like his sister had said
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before she left.
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Koua went to Como High School where Nikki went and found her in the cafeteria eating breakfast.
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Koua says quote, Soon as I show I say, hey, where's my sister? just in a calm nice way,
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you know?
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And of course she gets all mean about it.
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I don't know where your sister is.
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I don't know what you're talking about.
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End quote.
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A few days later Hang's parents report her missing to police.
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Police do not take her disappearance seriously.
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They write Hang off as a runaway since this is something that she had done in the past.
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To further fuel that theory, police did talk to Nikki and she told them that she saw Hang
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leave with some unknown young men.
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Hang's family do not believe that she ran away.
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She didn't take any of her other clothing with her, she left her purse, and she never
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picked up her $100 paycheck from work.
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Hang's parents are at a loss for what to do.
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Since they don't speak English, they have to rely on their teenage children to translate
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for them.
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They don't have any contacts with the media to get Hang's story, the press coverage that
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it desperately needs.
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In June of that year, so six months since Hang disappeared, Hang's family start to
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hang flyers up around town.
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Police do start to find it strange that Hang has not returned home or contacted her family.
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Police go back to talk to Nikki about what happened that night.
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This time, Nikki has a different story for them.
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She tells police that she dropped Nikki off to hang with her white friends.
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After more questions, Nikki says that Wallace was the last person that she saw with Hang.
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When asked why she lied about it, she told police she thought that Hang really had run
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away and didn't want to get her in trouble, and that Wallace had warned her not to tell
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anyone about his business.
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Once police learn of Mark Steven Wallace's possible involvement, they start looking into
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the case seriously, but they're six months behind now.
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Police conduct a search of Wallace's home, office, car, and pickup truck.
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It's reported that they did luminol tests, but nothing was found.
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Shortly after this, Wallace lawyers up and refuses to talk to police or answer their
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questions.
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Wallace was talking about the case with his friends, however.
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Wallace had told a friend, who later told police, that he had dropped Hang off at a
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gas station near her job at the Wong Cafe.
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Police talked with Hang's friends, and nobody said that they had seen her that night.
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In July of 1993, so the next month, police tell Hang's parents what they know and what
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they know about Wallace, but the investigation has stalled.
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Both Wallace and Nikki were refusing to cooperate with police, and they didn't have any evidence
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that a crime had been committed.
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Those that knew Hang knew that she hadn't run away.
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Her boss, Eileen, at the Wong Cafe says, quote, we knew she didn't run away.
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She never went anyplace without that purse.
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That's where she kept a lead ball and a knife for protection.
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She always wanted to act real tough, but she wasn't.
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She was really too sweet for her own good.
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End quote.
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And then the case appears to go really cold for a while.
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The next update that I could find comes 16 years later in 2009.
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The home that Wallace had grown up in and later inherited from his mother went into
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foreclosure.
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A neighbor had called police and told them that in 2004, when Wallace first inherited
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the home, he built a detached garage super quickly on the property.
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The neighbor said he had never seen a garage get built so quickly.
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When the home was put into foreclosure, the new owners who acquired the home gave police
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permission to search the property.
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Near the detached garage that Wallace had built, two out of three cadaver dogs hid on
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the garage in the same spot.
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Encouraged by this, police get a search warrant to drill holes into the garage of the floor
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to give dogs better access to the soil underneath.
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When the dogs were turned, none of them hit or were interested in the garage.
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Police wanted to tear up the garage and the foundation, but without more evidence, they
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couldn't get the search warrant and the new owners didn't want their garage ripped up.
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In 2016, so this is 23 years now that Hang has been missing, Mark Steven Wallace is
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arrested and charged with kidnapping, stalking, and possession of meth.
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He was caught in a hotel room with a 20-year-old friend of his daughter's.
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When police found them, they said the woman was covered in bruises and malnourished.
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She told police that she was being held against her will and Wallace kept threatening her
235
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to do what he did to a woman in St. Paul.
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00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,920
He said she entered by business and never came out.
237
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,160
Wallace is charged with this case and given a three-year sentence.
238
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:35,100
In April of 2017, Hang has been missing now for 24 years.
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00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:38,480
Her family decides to hold a spirit release for her.
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A spirit release ceremony is a Hmong custom that allows for the person's soul to be reincarnated.
241
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,400
Hang's niece Lillian wrote on her Facebook, quote,
242
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:53,160
As much as it breaks our hearts that we can't find closure and answers we seek, we, as a
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00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:58,840
family, have decided to finally release her spirit on April 7th and 8th, 2017.
244
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,440
The spiritual release acknowledges that Hang may no longer be alive in this world, but
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she will live in our hearts forever.
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00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,760
We as her family would like to honor her by releasing her spirit to the other world.
247
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End quote.
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00:15:10,980 --> 00:15:13,600
This is the first memorial held for Hang.
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00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,380
Her family do believe that if she was alive, she would have reached out to them by now
250
00:15:17,380 --> 00:15:18,920
if she was able to.
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00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,600
Hang's mother, Chong Vang, forgives whoever hurt her daughter, but wants to know where
252
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,240
Hang is so that she can bring her home and have a proper burial.
253
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,480
The family invite the public to her spirit release, hoping to help raise awareness for
254
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,480
the case.
255
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,360
Her mother, Chong, says, quote,
256
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,420
Those who love her, please come.
257
00:15:36,420 --> 00:15:40,440
Also please come and see that this is not something that's just in a story.
258
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It is real too.
259
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,000
End quote.
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00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:48,060
Around 2019, Mark Steven Wallace was getting ready to be released from prison from the
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kidnapping case.
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00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,260
Prosecutors filed a petition for him to be civically committed at the Minnesota Sex Offender
263
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Program in Moose Lake.
264
00:15:56,180 --> 00:15:59,320
This is a quick summary because I didn't know what this was.
265
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:04,120
People are detained here who no longer have an active prison sentence, but who the government
266
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,200
believes pose too much of a danger to the public and to reoffend.
267
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,380
In theory, people who are sent here are given therapy and the state attempts to rehabilitate
268
00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:15,980
them and release them back to the public.
269
00:16:15,980 --> 00:16:20,060
To date, only 16 people have ever been released from this program.
270
00:16:20,060 --> 00:16:24,120
And there are several complaints that the people here are not being given treatment
271
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:30,160
despite asking for it and that the state has no real plans to rehabilitate.
272
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,340
During the argument phase for Wallace to be committed, prosecutors laid out everything
273
00:16:34,340 --> 00:16:36,800
that they knew about Hang Lee.
274
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,960
This is the closest that the law has ever gotten to putting Wallace on trial for her
275
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:41,960
murder.
276
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,960
The judge agreed with prosecutors and Mark Steven Wallace is still in the Minnesota
277
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,820
Sex Offender Program.
278
00:16:47,820 --> 00:16:52,360
The last update that I could find for this case comes from 2021.
279
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,960
So this is 28 years now that Hang has been missing.
280
00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:01,040
The police returned to the former home of Wallace, the one with the detached garage.
281
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:06,560
This time they returned to do some digging and to penetrate the ground with 3D imaging.
282
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:12,360
Police say that they did not find Hang's body or sufficient evidence to make an arrest.
283
00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:15,480
That is all we know about the disappearance of Hang Lee.
284
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:21,320
If you know anything about what happened to Hang Lee in January of 1993 or her whereabouts
285
00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:31,640
today, please call the St. Paul Police Missing Person Unit at 651-266-5612.
286
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:37,280
And the sources for the timeline today come from The Star Tribune, Twin Cities Pioneer,
287
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:44,720
Superior Telegram, CBS News Minnesota, The Republican Eagle, KSTP-TV, Kare 11 News, and
288
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,520
The Charlie Project.
289
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,920
So that is the case of Hang Lee.
290
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,160
It's just devastating.
291
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:52,160
You know, they all are.
292
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:58,360
But the moment you kind of described what she looked like, and I don't mean by race,
293
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:03,400
just that the moment you said that she was like rocker, whatever.
294
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,560
It's not a case that I knew, but after that I was like, she probably didn't really stand
295
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:13,060
a chance of there being a great effort in looking for her.
296
00:18:13,060 --> 00:18:15,680
And that was like just from that alone.
297
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:16,680
I don't know.
298
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,280
I think it's interesting that I had that reaction.
299
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:20,280
Like my body knew.
300
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,960
Yeah, and she is like quintessential 80s rocker.
301
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,320
That is what she looks like.
302
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,680
Just like whatever image just popped into your head, she was rocking it.
303
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,160
I think she looks so cool.
304
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:34,720
Oh yeah, incredible.
305
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,520
Like Joan Jett, but really cool, iconic.
306
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:45,200
I imagine that her looks now, people would be like, would want to turn them out themselves.
307
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,200
I do.
308
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,200
I saw them.
309
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,200
Totally.
310
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,440
I love how she talks about the fact that she was a really cool person.
311
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:58,100
And that it's like unfair how in a small moment, a descriptor of someone can really change
312
00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:00,760
the pace of a case.
313
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:06,800
One word can just like, the direction is not going where the family may want it to go.
314
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:07,800
Right.
315
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:12,200
And her family was already at such a disadvantage with her parents being refugees and her herself
316
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,440
being a refugee.
317
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:19,240
They just didn't know the police system and who to talk to, how to get her case in the
318
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:20,240
media.
319
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,040
They just did not have the resources that they needed.
320
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,040
Yeah.
321
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:29,760
And it was at a time where, you know, social media wasn't, wasn't there.
322
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,960
Something else that I think just came up for me in listening is that like, she was just
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00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:41,840
like truly robbed of her opportunity to like share her and her family's culture with the
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00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:42,840
world.
325
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:48,280
And like from a pretty early age that that was her vocation.
326
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,800
She said like the Hmong lifestyle.
327
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:50,800
Yeah.
328
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,840
She wanted to write about being Hmong in America.
329
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:54,840
Yeah.
330
00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:00,880
And being like, I'm assuming that she probably had some perspective of like, this is what
331
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:07,720
it's like for me in like assimilation with a look that yes, I assimilated to, but I also
332
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,200
really liked that made me stand out.
333
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:16,880
That made me stand out just on the, and the look by itself, but also being a refugee who
334
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,840
stands out in this way.
335
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:19,840
Like I'm sad.
336
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,960
I'm sad we don't get to like hear that perspective.
337
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:22,960
Yeah.
338
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:29,080
I mean, I hope we still really get to, but like, it was like, I guess the through note
339
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:35,120
that kept getting me because her family like did it anyway in like a small way for her,
340
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:36,840
but in like the most heartbreaking way.
341
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:37,840
Right.
342
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,360
Like it's like the most heartbreaking aspect of their culture, but that they still like
343
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:49,560
honored it in full was like, it was so beautiful, but like unnecessarily so, you know what I
344
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:50,560
mean?
345
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:51,560
With her spirit release.
346
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:52,560
Yes.
347
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:53,560
Her spirit release.
348
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,560
Sorry.
349
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:55,560
That was beautiful.
350
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,800
And someone took that from her and in turn, like took that from the world.
351
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,600
And that's just mean at its core, evil maybe.
352
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:04,600
Absolutely.
353
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,880
More about the case though.
354
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,800
I just wish they weren't teens.
355
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:14,800
Like I'm trying to talk about Nikki with like kindness, but I'm also like, maybe she was
356
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,520
just like a teen with a bad attitude.
357
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:17,520
It was like, whatever.
358
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,480
I don't know where your sister is, you know, like, because I was, you know, we've all been
359
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:22,480
teenagers.
360
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:23,480
Yeah.
361
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,600
And you know what?
362
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,720
That's actually something that I thought about too of like, on one hand, yeah, I would totally
363
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,360
respond that way to some people as a snotty teenager.
364
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:35,360
Yeah.
365
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,000
Like, I'm her best friend's brother.
366
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,000
Yeah.
367
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,120
But then at the same time, I'm like, but if she's missing, why aren't you saying, what
368
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:44,920
do you mean she didn't come home last night?
369
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,180
Like that was, I can see it both ways.
370
00:21:48,180 --> 00:21:49,180
You know what I mean?
371
00:21:49,180 --> 00:21:50,180
Yeah.
372
00:21:50,180 --> 00:21:51,180
Yes.
373
00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:52,180
I thought the same thing.
374
00:21:52,180 --> 00:21:54,080
Like there's no concern.
375
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,360
That seems odd.
376
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:56,400
Totally.
377
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,720
And I did mention in the timeline that Nikki is a teenage girl that does appear to have
378
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,960
been a victim of Mark Steven Wallace.
379
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:05,960
Yeah.
380
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:11,880
Keeping that in mind, her behavior makes a lot more sense as to why her story is changing
381
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:17,080
because she's a child who is being manipulated by an offender.
382
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,080
An adult.
383
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,080
Yes.
384
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,080
Yeah.
385
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,080
Mark.
386
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,680
Like Wallace, he's 30 years old at this time.
387
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,080
He's been convicted of sex crimes twice.
388
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,800
And in each of those instances, it was a repeated behavior.
389
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,640
It was a pattern.
390
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,320
And it seemed to keep escalating.
391
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:35,320
Yeah.
392
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:43,280
I would say the social justice system on all fronts really failed in regard to this person
393
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,600
and how he kept slipping through the cracks.
394
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,600
I don't know.
395
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,400
I don't understand what happened there.
396
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:58,760
But yes, we here at Cold and Missing believe in rehabilitated practices for offenders, even
397
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,720
particular offenders.
398
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:06,720
But that doesn't mean rehabilitation for the exact same world you and I live in.
399
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:13,960
Boundaries can still be around those people who just require more to exist safely for
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00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,200
themselves and others.
401
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,920
I felt shocked that...
402
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,200
Yes, shocked.
403
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,200
Yeah.
404
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,480
I felt shocked in 2016 that he only got three years for a kidnapping charge.
405
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,800
A kidnapping?
406
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,600
Just a failure.
407
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,600
It was upsetting.
408
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:39,320
You know, unfortunately, I'm not always surprised, especially in the 70s, 80s, and 90s when there's
409
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,560
short sentences for a sex crime, for sexual violence.
410
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,000
It doesn't always surprise me because I'm like, well, men hate women.
411
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,240
So that makes sense that they give short sentences for these kinds of crimes.
412
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,240
Well, just, yeah.
413
00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:05,400
I mean, historically, societally, we've never placed great value on justice for people who
414
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:14,520
commit justice for victims and survivors and true accountability for the perpetrators.
415
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,360
It's very true that, yeah, quote, men hate women.
416
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:23,520
Like, I, even as a man, like I, 100% I know what you're saying.
417
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:29,920
I see how this is the world, like the systems at play and how they function within them.
418
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,000
And three years.
419
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,680
Three years.
420
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:41,840
And that when he was convicted before he got out in 1991, he was convicted of one of those
421
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,920
rapes, but there was all of those that like kind of helped support it, but he was only
422
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,920
put away for one.
423
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,240
But there was like a history.
424
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,880
So, I mean, I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here with the audience of Cold and Missing
425
00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:01,120
that we know that sexual assaults are not prosecuted and they're not reported.
426
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:03,600
No, and like they, nothing happens.
427
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:09,160
An attorney, your own attorney will tell you most of the time, you're probably going to
428
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,120
lose, which is like, it speaks volumes about the proof of the system and how it functions
429
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:16,280
and how like they look at women.
430
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,280
Right.
431
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,800
Who the system was built for.
432
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,120
The system was built for white cis men and anybody that falls outside of that and the
433
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:26,800
farther you fall outside of that, the more fucked you are by the system.
434
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:27,800
Yeah.
435
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,160
The farther you are from that label, the much steeper the drop.
436
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:39,080
Another kind of question that I had was in 2021 when police go back to this house where
437
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:44,760
he had built the garage and you know, they do this 3D ground penetrating radar.
438
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,640
They say that they don't have sufficient evidence for an arrest, but I'm like, did you get some
439
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,240
evidence?
440
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,640
Did something come out of that space that like was linked to hang, but it just wasn't
441
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,160
enough to convict somebody beyond a reasonable doubt of murder?
442
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,160
Yeah.
443
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,240
And if it's not enough that perhaps that's why they can't say anything because it's,
444
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,680
I don't know the semantics of that, but I guess I think I understand why they wouldn't
445
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,680
say anything.
446
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:10,680
Yeah.
447
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:11,680
But it was vague.
448
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,240
I think Paul was vague because I wondered what, I think I said the same thing out there.
449
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,240
Yeah.
450
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,520
Was there something found there that could be linked to hang?
451
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,600
I don't know.
452
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:28,260
But it does seem like the St. Paul police department revisits this case pretty consistently.
453
00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:32,440
This is the oldest missing person case in St. Paul.
454
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:38,840
So it almost feels like the police want to like solve it for that reason, like to be
455
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,520
the detective that solved the oldest missing person case in St. Paul.
456
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,520
You know what I mean?
457
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,080
Like to kind of like take that.
458
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,000
They claim it's never been a cold case because they're always working it.
459
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,800
So technically a case is cold when it's no longer worked, but...
460
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,240
It's a little wintery.
461
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:56,240
It's a little wintery.
462
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,840
A little snowfall on the case.
463
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,760
I'm hopeful that they can at least get answers for her siblings.
464
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,420
I believe her mother is still alive.
465
00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:07,560
Her father has passed away.
466
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,320
But her mother, I believe, is still alive, but she's on in her years now.
467
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:20,560
So her brother, Koua, really kind of helms the media coverage for the family and keeps
468
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,900
her story in the media and makes sure that it's covered by the press and kind of access
469
00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:26,440
the spokesperson for the family.
470
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,040
So I really hope she was one of 13 siblings.
471
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:35,800
So I hope she can get home to them in some way and that they can have her again.
472
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,200
If you know anything about what happened to Hang Lee in January of 1993 or her whereabouts
473
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:50,120
today, please call the St. Paul Police Missing Person Unit at 651-266-5612.
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00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:54,400
While you're getting ready to go to your next podcast, if you could leave us a little review
475
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,760
in your podcast app.
476
00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,380
If you're an Apple, leaving us a written review helps us so much and helps others find us.
477
00:28:00,380 --> 00:28:03,040
We got two new reviews this week.
478
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One from Bella Z.
479
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,900
So thank you so much.
480
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:10,920
And then one from somebody who just has numbers as their username.
481
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:11,920
121664.
482
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,240
But if that's you, thank you so much.
483
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,400
Thanks to both of you.
484
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:18,400
It's so helpful.
485
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:19,400
It makes my day.
486
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,040
I run around with like a spring in my step and a smile if you leave us.
487
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,920
And Allie doesn't run anywhere.
488
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:26,920
I don't.
489
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,320
You should watch her across the street even when a car is coming.
490
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,800
Boy, is it fun to be married to her in those moments.
491
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,120
Hit me in a crosswalk.
492
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:37,160
And my wife, she won't change her pace for anyone.
493
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,320
And I love it.
494
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,960
I'm not going to.
495
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,800
So thank you for adding a spring in my step.
496
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:43,800
Thank you for taking the time.
497
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,480
I know everyone's so busy these days.
498
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:52,300
So anytime you take the time out to review us, write to us, message us, comment, it means
499
00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:53,300
a lot to me.
500
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:55,320
And it feels like getting snail mail.
501
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:56,320
It really does.
502
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,120
Yeah, it feels so cool.
503
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,560
And of course, Eli will be making the beautiful graphics this week on Instagram.
504
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,740
We'll have pictures of Hang Lee, her incredible rocker look.
505
00:29:05,740 --> 00:29:09,320
You should absolutely check her out because she looks incredible.
506
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,740
And we'll also have an age progressed picture of her as well.
507
00:29:12,740 --> 00:29:15,720
So you can see what she would look like today.
508
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,120
And if you or someone you know is hard of hearing or deaf and need transcripts, you
509
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,400
can hop over to our website, coldandmissing.com.
510
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,400
There you can sign up for our newsletter.
511
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,040
You can leave us reviews there.
512
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,800
You can donate to our buy us a coffee campaign.
513
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,760
You can even leave us a voicemail if you want to.
514
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,240
That's all available on our website, www.coldandmissing.com.
515
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,280
But that's all I have.
516
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Have a great week and stay safe, y'all.
517
00:29:43,240 --> 00:30:04,280
Stay safe, y'all.
