Cold and Missing: John William Leonard, Sr

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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.

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All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages and is intended for a mature

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audience.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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Welcome back everyone.

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Welcome back.

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Yeah, welcome to Cold and Missing.

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I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin.

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I am your other host, Eli Sulkowski.

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We are a husband and wife duo bringing you the true crime.

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The true crime and it's on your own time because you can listen whenever you want.

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That's it.

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True crime on your own time.

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Podcasts.

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This has been an ad for podcasts.

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This has been an ad for podcasts.

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Stupid.

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Okay so, uh, I don't remember what.

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Oh no.

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Last week was cold.

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Last week was technically missing.

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Damn it.

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She is Jessica Kinsey who we talked about last week.

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Every week I'm going to say, what was that last week?

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I know.

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And I'm going to get it wrong.

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And it'll be this.

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It'll be a whole bit.

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No, E. You're wrong.

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That's not what it is.

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So we are on cold this week.

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Alright, so we're going to be talking about the cold case, the murder of John William

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Leonard Senior.

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It's an old person again?

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Well, he's 52 when this happens.

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He's not an old guy.

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Alright.

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But he's just a senior.

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He has a son also named after him.

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So there's a junior and a senior.

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Not like a senior citizen.

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Okay.

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I wasn't like announcing his, his like seniority.

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Senior citizen.

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Yeah.

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Just kidding.

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He's just a regular guy.

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He's a regular guy who is dead.

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Oh, alright.

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So we're going to be talking about John William Leonard Senior.

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And this takes place September 8th, 1970.

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And we are in the Black Hills Fall Resort Town or Resort area of Mountain Home, Pennsylvania.

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And this is all located within the Poconos, the Poconos Mountain Range there.

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The Poconos!

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The Poconos.

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And if you are unfamiliar with Pennsylvania, as I was, the closest like major town is Scranton,

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Pennsylvania, which I...

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Scranton!

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We're big office fans in this household.

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So like, that's a very easy landmark for us.

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So hopefully that helps you as well.

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But yeah, we're going to be talking about John Leonard today.

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And in 1970, John Leonard, he's a 52 year old father of five young children.

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Him and his wife, Madeline, are separated, but John has custody of all the children and

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Madeline lives out of town at this point.

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Kevin is 16.

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Johnny is 15.

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Debbie and Lori, they're twins.

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They are 13.

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And Timmy is 11.

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So those are the five kids.

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And John is a World War II vet.

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And actually during World War II, he was a prisoner of war of the Nazis for 22 months.

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And he was only really...

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Whoa!

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Yeah.

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He was a...

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That's almost two years.

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That's almost two years.

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He actually was only released because the war ended.

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So he was in there until the end of the war.

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Wow.

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Everyone in all the articles I read, everyone talks about what a devoted father he was.

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He put his children before everything.

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And he was always baking bread, making soups, and washing the kids clothes.

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That's how he was described.

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Yeah.

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I actually thought of you.

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Big me energy.

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Yeah.

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Making your soups.

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Yeah.

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Just my little household business.

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I like to keep a tidy home.

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I like to...

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Totally.

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John did too.

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He took them to church every Sunday.

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And a community member, Mike Malik, is quoted as, he brought them up in the church.

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Every Sunday, they were at mass.

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Maybe not the best dressed kids in the world, but they always looked neat.

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John was rather reserved in nature, not a big drinker, but would become, quote, very

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talkative when he occasionally had a few drinks.

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And him and his children live in an apartment above a bar and a taxi garage, where John

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also has been working as a cab driver for the last 18 years.

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Oh, okay.

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And this, his home, apartment, and workplace, all in one, work from home before work from

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home, is located in Cresco, Pennsylvania, and along Route 30.

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And from all the reports that I can tell, this bar and garage is owned by a man.

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His name is Don Mick, and he plays a big part in the story.

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But apparently, the Mick family still owns and operates this location.

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And when I did a Google map...

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Like now, in 2022?

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As of 2015.

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I don't know if maybe COVID, if they still are operating.

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So Tuesday, September 8th, 1970, around 2.15 in the afternoon, John and John Jr., his son,

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are out running errands, and they stop at a grocery store to pick up 500 paper bags.

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It's an interesting detail, and I feel like this woman knows the exact time she was in

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there because it's like, that's 500 paper bags.

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That's just something you would remember.

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What's the time of year?

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September 8th.

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And so he picks up the 500 paper bags and takes them back to the taxi garage.

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It's called Mick's.

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And John said he would be back around 4.30 to pay for the bags.

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So on his way back to the taxi garage...

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What a time in the 70s, where you could be like, I'll be right...

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I'll get you back in a sec.

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Yeah, I'll be right back.

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Yeah, run to your car.

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Put it on my tab.

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Yeah.

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Put these 500 bags on my tab.

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Thank you.

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So on his way back to the taxi garage, John drops John Jr. off at a bus stop so he can

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go to buy school clothes since school started the next day.

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This is the day before school starts.

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Around 2.40 that afternoon, John is back at Mick's Taxi Service, and they get a call requesting

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service from Buck Hill Falls, Pennsylvania to Mountain Home, Pennsylvania.

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The trip would be around five miles that was being requested.

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So John gets in his 1966 Black Plymouth sedan and leaves Cresco, PA, where the garage is,

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and heads towards Buck Hills Fall.

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This is a two mile car ride, and when I looked it up on Google Maps today, it's only a seven

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minute car ride.

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So it's really quick to get there.

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It's just like kind of a straight shot of a highway.

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John's last radio contact with Don Mick is at 2.44.

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So that's roughly four minutes after he leaves the garage.

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He has a radio contact with his boss, Don Mick.

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And that's the last time that John is heard from is at 2.44 p.m. on the radio.

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Now here's where things start to get murky, as they always do.

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But a lodge employee says he sees John driving toward the main building of the property.

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It's called the Inn.

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The same employee says that John stopped and picked up a white male with dark hair, wearing

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a blue-green sport coat and horned rimmed glasses that had dark frames.

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Initially, in the days after John's murder, the reports will say the man is in his early

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to mid-20s.

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But over time and as of 2022, the description shifts and police will say that he's between

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the age of 30 and 40.

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This man is also carrying a white shopping bag from the Globe Store in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

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And this was like a big department store.

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So think like a Macy's or a Sears, JCPenney at the time, big department store in Scranton.

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Around 3 p.m., so this is roughly 15 minutes after John was last heard from, a part-time

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police officer sees that same man standing outside of the cab.

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Around 3.30, Don became worried when he couldn't get ahold of John.

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So Don heads to the Inn to look for him.

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And again, this is a very quick car ride.

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So around 3.45, Don finds John dead in his car with four gunshot wounds.

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John's car will be roughly 50 to 100 feet south of the main entrance to the Inn, but

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was in a slightly secluded area.

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So John will be pronounced dead at the scene.

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And there is some variance about the gunshots.

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Dr. Farrans, who reports him dead at the scene, told the newspapers that John had been shot

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twice in the head with a.22 or a.32 at Point Blake Range.

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John will ultimately have been shot four times.

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And there's some varying reports of where those four shots exactly are.

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So there's reports that all four are in the head, that three are in the head, one is in

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the chest, two are in the head, two are in the neck.

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Either way, some definitely get into his head for sure, at least two.

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The doctor will also say that the shots had been fired at a close range and at an upward

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angle.

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And this will be confirmed because John will have powder burn marks on his collar.

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So like the gun was very close to him when it went off.

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And the coroner estimates that the time of death is somewhere between 2.45 and 3 p.m.

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So John's last contact was at 2.44.

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So that in theory was minutes before he was killed.

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And then how John's body is found is also reported with some slight variations.

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So one, he's slumped over the steering wheel.

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The second report is that he sprawled across the front seat with his head against the driver

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door.

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The third report that I found was that he was in the back seat.

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But there was only one report of that, that he was in the back seat.

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Ultimately, the majority say that he was slumped over the steering wheel or he was sprawled

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across the front seat.

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Those are the majority of the reports.

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The car was in a park position and the driver's window was down.

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And the keys were in the ignition and switched to accessory.

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No money was taken from the cab at all.

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All the cab's cash was there and accounted for and his wallet was undisturbed.

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So robbery is quickly ruled out as a motive for his killing.

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And then Don Mick stated he found the cab close to the front entrance of the inn, but

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added that an employee of the inn stationed just inside the front door said he neither

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heard or saw anything.

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And then a newspaper article has this quote that I'd like to read.

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I thought it was really interesting.

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So quote, a source close to the case who wished to stay anonymous said the killer was either

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deranged, high on narcotics or out for instant revenge.

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The source theorized that the killer placed the call to Mick's from a payphone requesting

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a cab and then began walking down the drive from the inn or came up from the employee's

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dorms to the base of the entrance of the drive and waited for his victim.

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It's not surprising that no one at Buck Hill heard the shots.

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Even though the front window of the cab was open, it could have been opened by the killer

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after he had shot the driver.

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This of course would have put him in the front seat next to the victim.

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The killer could then get out of the car, walk across the drive and slip down over a

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short wall and flee.

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End quote, and that is from the Tribune.

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Anne and Don Mick will take care of John's children until Madeline, their mother, can

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arrive from out of town.

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So they step up and take care of the kids like their own.

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They don't get moved out of the house that they know.

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They get to stay there.

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And in later interviews with the children, like in 2015, they will talk about how thankful

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they were to have like Don and Anne there and to be able to like have them during this

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time.

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Thursday, September 10th, 1970.

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This is a story that I found in the newspaper that I can't make sense of.

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And I don't know, I don't know what it's talking about here.

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And I tried to find as much as I could.

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So I just want to put it out there for our listeners and for you to hear and get your

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thoughts on it.

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Kevin goes down into the bar around noon where Anne Mick is working.

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Kevin begins to look for something along the back of the bar.

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Kevin then says, quote, Anne, this isn't Don's writing, Kevin said, picking up a blue telephone

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directory.

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I thought it was Pops writing, Kevin said as he left the book at the back of the bar.

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Kevin was either referring to a telephone number or a name written on the phone book.

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And this is the same day that police will question all five of the children.

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So I don't, I don't know, because it sounds like the handwriting on this telephone directory

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is neither Don Mick's or his dad's.

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Because he says, because Kevin says, I thought it was Pops writing.

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So I, and I couldn't find any other mentions of this in any other newspapers of what this

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could be.

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It's just kind of like written really quickly and then it goes into the children's interviews.

246
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,040
But yeah, I don't really know what this is, but I wanted to include it because it, it's

247
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,160
stuck with me and it's a piece that I can't quite figure out.

248
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:05,780
Friday, September 11th, the funeral for John is held and the wake and funeral ultimately

249
00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:07,720
lasts for three days altogether.

250
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,500
And each day the funeral is filled to capacity.

251
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:18,360
And then the next week on September 17th, police establish a headquarters at the Buckhill

252
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,120
Falls in a vacant building to work on this case.

253
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:30,520
So around the time of John's murder, there are also two other murders that happen that

254
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,560
the media will talk about a lot.

255
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,360
And it's easy to see why.

256
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,300
In 1968, Alfred Lewis Barnes was found murdered in a field.

257
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:45,040
He had been shot three times in the head and once in the hand.

258
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,640
So that was two years before John's murder.

259
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:56,440
And then 11 ish weeks after John's murder, 21 year old Gary Jennings was found murdered

260
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,180
in his parked car.

261
00:15:58,180 --> 00:16:01,560
He had been shot in the head four times.

262
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,020
So these all sound very similar.

263
00:16:04,020 --> 00:16:07,120
And even when I saw this, I started to get very peaked.

264
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:15,520
As I kind of investigated these two as well, Gary's murder will be solved in 1970.

265
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:21,040
His business partner is ultimately charged with murdering him.

266
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,440
And Alfred's won't be solved until 2015.

267
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,880
Oh, so just like seven years ago?

268
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:29,880
Yeah.

269
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:30,880
Wow.

270
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,180
The media will often mention these three murders together at the time.

271
00:16:33,180 --> 00:16:37,040
So if our listeners are doing any of their own research, they might see these names pop

272
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,040
up a little bit.

273
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,320
But even at the time, police will say that John and Gary are not connected, but they

274
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,720
never really comment on John and Alfred.

275
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:53,400
But ultimately, since Alfred's murder has been solved by a confession, this man confessed

276
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,680
in 2015, I would think they are also not related.

277
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:04,720
As far as John's murder goes, though, that's really all we hear from in 1970.

278
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,320
There's not many updates.

279
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:12,420
I checked at the yearly anniversaries, five-year anniversaries, and I couldn't find any newspaper

280
00:17:12,420 --> 00:17:14,200
articles around it.

281
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:23,680
However, just shy of two and a half years of John's murder, this is February 21st, 1973,

282
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:30,360
Madeline, John's wife, she has moved back to the area to care for the children.

283
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:35,880
And Madeline announces to her family that she was going to go for a drive because she

284
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,120
got a tip about John's murder.

285
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:42,400
But she doesn't tell anyone in the family where she's going, who she's going to talk

286
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,200
to, what the tip is.

287
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,200
No details.

288
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,200
Just that she-

289
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,660
But she does tell them it's a tip about John.

290
00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:49,660
It's a tip about John.

291
00:17:49,660 --> 00:17:50,660
Yeah.

292
00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:52,880
So that's Wednesday evening.

293
00:17:52,880 --> 00:18:00,320
So Thursday, the next day, February 22nd, at around 10 a.m., a passing motorist noticed

294
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,080
a car had driven into the woods and called it into police.

295
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:09,960
Police find Madeline and she is pronounced dead at the scene from a crushed neck.

296
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,560
Police rule her death as an accident and call it a one-car crash.

297
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,360
But her neck is crushed?

298
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:20,020
Her neck specifically?

299
00:18:20,020 --> 00:18:24,920
Basically in a newspaper report, it says her neck was crushed.

300
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,600
This is what police believe happened for the car crash.

301
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:36,440
I'm going to talk about a car crash here, so trigger warning.

302
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:41,720
So police believe it happened in the early morning of Thursday.

303
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:48,520
Madeline was traveling east along Route 940 in Paradise Township when she lost control

304
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,520
of the car.

305
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:55,120
The car traveled for 30 feet along the right berm of the highway.

306
00:18:55,120 --> 00:19:01,640
The vehicle then crossed east and westbound lanes of traffic before crashing into the

307
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,160
woods on the west side of the highway.

308
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:11,000
The car then crashes into and severs a large tree.

309
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,400
The car will continue for several more feet before stopping beneath another tree.

310
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:23,560
Altogether, the car will travel into the woods about 60 feet and it's very difficult to see

311
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,560
from the roadway.

312
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:33,760
So the car essentially zigzagged before it crashed, so that doesn't really make sense

313
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:34,760
to me.

314
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:42,240
So, yeah, it says that she was driving on the right side for about 30 feet, like on

315
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,280
the shoulder, the berm, which is like kind of a hill.

316
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,560
So she's like driving along that for 30 feet and then goes across the lanes of traffic

317
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:57,480
she was in, goes across the other lanes of traffic, and then goes into the woods on that

318
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,400
side, severs a large tree.

319
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,480
So she moves to the left or to the right?

320
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,520
Yeah, so she must move to the left if she's...

321
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,380
She's traveling eastbound.

322
00:20:08,380 --> 00:20:11,640
So yeah, she goes left across those lanes of traffic.

323
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:16,600
But first she goes all the way over to the shoulder on the east side and then crosses

324
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,220
all those lanes of traffic again.

325
00:20:18,220 --> 00:20:23,760
So she goes like one extreme to the other and then into the woods for 60 feet, severs

326
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,960
a large tree, but that doesn't stop.

327
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,080
It keeps going.

328
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:34,440
And like the question I have is just like, were her brakes cut?

329
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,420
Like did she not have any brakes?

330
00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:37,520
Did the brakes fail?

331
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:43,040
Like, because she is on a berm, which is like kind of a hill anyway, like that's going to

332
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:48,160
slow your car down if you take your foot off the gas.

333
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,600
Like that'll slow your car down before you zigzag into other traffic.

334
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:52,600
So is her foot...

335
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,840
But none of those things, even hitting a tree, wouldn't crush your neck.

336
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:58,840
Yeah.

337
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,480
And then it all comes back to how did her neck get crushed?

338
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,160
Like how are they saying it in the car crash?

339
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,360
So yeah, the car crash thing is really nuts to me.

340
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:15,840
That she was coming back from a tip or going to a tip, we don't even really know if she

341
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:21,800
was traveling there still, if she was coming from, and we don't know who she met, what

342
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:22,800
it was about.

343
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,680
But yeah, so at this point, the kids in the span of two and a half years have lost both

344
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:29,680
their parents.

345
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:30,680
Wow.

346
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:38,720
So in 1999, Lori, this is John and Madeline's daughter, she writes a letter to state officials

347
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:44,960
and Monroe County DA, and she receives a response from them that they will update her with any

348
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,920
new information they have on her father's case.

349
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:53,840
But as of 2015, around 16 years later, they never heard from these people.

350
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,280
So roughly there have been no updates in the case.

351
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:03,800
In 2015, the family gives an interview for the Washington Times, and Lori is quoted as

352
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,300
saying quote, whoever killed our father took so much away from us.

353
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:13,080
Our dad wasn't there to see any of us graduate high school or turn each year older.

354
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,520
He wasn't there to see us get our degrees or walk us down the aisles at our weddings.

355
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,340
He never got to meet his grandchildren or his great grandchildren.

356
00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:24,680
And it's a shame because they would have gotten to know firsthand for themselves what

357
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,240
a hero he was.

358
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,480
He was the best dad in the world.

359
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,520
Are you okay?

360
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,400
I didn't want them to know that I was crying.

361
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,640
It's okay.

362
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:36,640
It's really sweet.

363
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,600
Like it sounds like he was a really fabulous father.

364
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:46,340
So then the last update on this case actually comes in 2022.

365
00:22:46,340 --> 00:22:51,960
Police will release for the first time the composite sketch of the suspect seen standing

366
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,500
near and walking away from John's taxi.

367
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:58,960
So we're going to post this on our Instagram to put it out there for everybody.

368
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:05,360
But this in 2022 is the first time the police release the composite sketch of this man that

369
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:06,360
was seen.

370
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,640
What the fuck were they doing in the seventies?

371
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:10,640
I don't know.

372
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,960
I don't know what they, I don't know why it didn't come out till the seventies.

373
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,000
Because even when you look at the picture, it's like, you can tell that it's aged and

374
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,520
dated and like, it looks like an old drawing.

375
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,520
Sure.

376
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,680
And I'll show it to you and our listeners, you can go to Instagram at cold and missing

377
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,080
and look at it there.

378
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,080
But then that's it.

379
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:36,920
So anyone with any info are encouraged to call the state police at Stroudsburg and their

380
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,800
phone number is 570-619-6480.

381
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:50,160
They specifically want to hear from servers and bartenders that worked at the inn August

382
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,680
and September of 1970.

383
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,880
That's almost 50 years ago.

384
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,400
That is 50 years.

385
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,120
That's over 50 years ago.

386
00:23:58,120 --> 00:23:59,120
Yeah.

387
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:00,720
That's 52 years ago.

388
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:01,720
Right?

389
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:02,720
Yeah.

390
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:03,720
Yeah.

391
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:10,680
So they want to talk to like the person like they're asking anyone who worked there in

392
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,360
the seventies, specifically the summer.

393
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:16,640
People are in their seventies or eighties.

394
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:17,640
Yeah.

395
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:18,640
Yeah.

396
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:24,680
Not that you aren't of sound mind in your seventies or eighties, but like, I can't tell

397
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,680
you what I did in August and September of this year.

398
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,680
Like I can't tell you what I did this morning.

399
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:31,680
Specifics?

400
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,680
No, get out of here.

401
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:38,000
The police, the detectives are very interested in talking to those people specifically.

402
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:46,160
And the sources for today's podcast is BRCTV 13, the morning call, the Washington times,

403
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:53,480
the Tribune, the Pocono record, the times leader, standard speaker, the times Tribune

404
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,080
and crime watch PA.

405
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,040
But that's, that's John Leonard.

406
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,120
Wow.

407
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:04,480
And I'm sure you heard me gasping while I was researching this case this week.

408
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,480
Yes, I did.

409
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:06,480
Yeah.

410
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,600
I ran into the kitchen multiple times thinking there was an intruder.

411
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:11,600
Yes.

412
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,640
But it was, it was when I found those other murders.

413
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,500
That was, that was one of the times I gasped.

414
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:22,040
And then I also gasped when I found her car crash, Madeline's car crash.

415
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:30,120
I went, I said, she got in this car crash with this tip.

416
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:36,060
And even if it's not related to, to John's murder, it's like, was that maybe someone

417
00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:40,080
exploiting her just trying to get her.

418
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:46,360
And it's like the driving, the crushed neck with somebody following her on the road.

419
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:47,360
Yeah.

420
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:50,280
Like an accident like that.

421
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:57,400
I don't know the like interior of a car at the time, but like, I know that if someone

422
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,840
were to get into a car accident in that way, you would fling forward, you know?

423
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:08,920
So, and if you didn't have a seatbelt on, like maybe you would break your neck, but

424
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:16,320
like more than anything, either the airbag would go off or you would hit the windshield

425
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,320
or go through it.

426
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,320
Yeah.

427
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,320
And they didn't-

428
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,520
Depending on how fast it was going.

429
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,920
I don't think airbags were around in 1973.

430
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:25,920
Okay.

431
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:26,920
Yeah.

432
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:27,920
I don't.

433
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:28,920
I don't know.

434
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:29,920
I'm not an auto expert.

435
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,800
It doesn't make, I mean, even if, even if you hit a tree in that way, head on, your

436
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:41,040
neck wouldn't be crushed, it might break, but it would break from you flinging forward

437
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,560
and like your own body weight doing it.

438
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:45,560
Yeah.

439
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,600
If it had been reported that she had a broken neck, that would make sense.

440
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,960
I could like believe this story like more that she lost control of the car, but then

441
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,600
like I still have questions like, so she didn't break at all?

442
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,600
She didn't, like, why was she just pedaled to the metal?

443
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,600
No break?

444
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:02,600
Anyway.

445
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,600
Yeah.

446
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:04,600
And if her neck was crushed-

447
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:10,400
So if your neck breaks in an accident like that, other bruising will be on your body.

448
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:11,400
Totally.

449
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:16,160
Like, so, but crushed is like a really-

450
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,960
It's a interesting way to describe it.

451
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:26,840
Yeah, crushed means like broken bones, collapsed windpipe, like crushed I think of like flattened.

452
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:27,840
Yeah.

453
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:28,840
Yeah.

454
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:34,360
And don't know the full details of her crash, besides like what I read here.

455
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:40,400
So I don't know if they found her inside or outside of the car, like those kinds of things.

456
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:47,500
But crushed neck was reported as the only thing that I could find as her cause of death.

457
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:52,760
That one's the one that gets me where I'm like, oh, like was this someone exploiting

458
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,520
her to get her away?

459
00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:00,040
I, yeah, I just, I have a lot of questions around that crash, but police wrap it up that

460
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,840
day more or less and call it an accident.

461
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,560
So wow.

462
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,920
Well I hope that this episode gets people talking about this again.

463
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,600
Maybe, maybe someone out there knows something.

464
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:12,600
Yeah.

465
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,800
And there is that recent composite sketch.

466
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:21,360
So like maybe your grandpa has this weird story about the 1970s, you know, that's like,

467
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:27,240
oh, grandpa and his funny story about shooting a man.

468
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,400
You know what I mean?

469
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:37,760
I mean, I'm just thinking like full, full disclosure, like my great, great, great somebody

470
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:44,440
like apparently shot a sheriff back in the day because he was sleeping with the sheriff's

471
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,440
wife.

472
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,840
Like, and it was like before my great grandma way back in the day.

473
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,360
So like, you know, these stories kind of get passed down through the lines of like, oh,

474
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:55,960
you know, do they though?

475
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:56,960
Do they?

476
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,760
I don't know what they do in everything.

477
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,760
Well we got loose lips.

478
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,760
If you like what you are listening to and are enjoying it, I encourage you to go over

479
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,920
to our Instagram.

480
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:19,480
Just search at cold and missing and we'll pop up there and we have links to everything

481
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,640
right there.

482
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,040
You can find us on all your favorite streaming platforms.

483
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,800
You can leave us a little review.

484
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:33,880
We got a new review this week and I ran in to where Eli was to announce it to him.

485
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,240
I was in the bathtub because I threw my back out.

486
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:43,320
Full disclosure, he was in the bathtub and I was like true rock fan one.

487
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,320
That is their name though.

488
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,320
So shout out if you're listening.

489
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,560
Like I was so excited.

490
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,440
Yeah.

491
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:56,080
From our Instagram, you can buy us a little coffee, which is just a way to tip us, which

492
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:01,960
goes directly back into the show of the costs of producing and podcasting.

493
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,520
And yeah, please subscribe.

494
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,680
Thanks for listening y'all.

495
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:08,680
Thank you so much for listening.

496
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:09,680
Have a great week.

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00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:26,480
Have a good week y'all.