Cold and Missing: Jubilee ‘Maile’ Lum

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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.

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All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages and is intended for a mature

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audience.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing.

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Welcome back y'all.

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I am your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.

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I am your co-host, Eli Sulkowski, and we are Cold and Missing.

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Cold and Missing where we cover cold cases and unresolved missing person cases.

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So what do you have for us?

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So today we are talking about the cold case of Jubilee Maile Lum.

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And Jubilee, her family and friends, they call her Maile.

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So that is what we're going to be referring to her as throughout the podcast.

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This takes place on the island of Oahu in Honolulu, Hawaii.

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So a little bit about Maile.

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Maile is 21 years old in 1999, which is when our case takes place.

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She was born November 26, 1977.

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She lived with her family on the island of Oahu in Honolulu.

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And she was one of six kids.

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So she had five brothers and sisters.

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She had three sisters and two brothers.

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In her youth, her family says that Maile had fallen into a rougher crowd and wanted to

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live a street lifestyle.

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But her family believed that she was turning her life around and was starting to leave

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that street lifestyle behind.

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And they said that she had just begun taking adult education classes in January.

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She was engaged to Ambrocio Lazaro, and they had known each other for over 10 years.

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And the two had planned to get married on November 26 of that year on her 22nd birthday.

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And at this time, this is August of 1999.

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At this time, she is four months pregnant.

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And her family described her as lovable, kind, very family-focused.

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Her younger sister said she was more of a mother to her than like a sister.

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So she really loved her family.

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So some events leading up to Maile's death.

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On Sunday, August 22, 1999, Maile's fiance, Ambrocio, he was actually in the hospital

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for some time because he was having heart problems, but he is released on Sunday.

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And it's reported that from this time, he starts trying to kind of locate Maile.

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But it's unclear if they're ever able to connect after he is released from the hospital.

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On Monday, August 23, 1999, Maile was last seen alive downtown on Hotel Street in the

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Chinatown neighborhood in the morning hours in Honolulu.

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Her fiance says that he was trying to find her all day Monday, but was unable to.

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On Tuesday, August 24, 1999, there is a very old flower shop in Honolulu.

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It's called Beretania Florist.

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And it's actually been there since 1937.

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And it's still there as of 2023.

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And it's run by the same family.

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It's like a fourth generation.

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So this is like an institution.

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It kind of feels like on the island.

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It's a very well-known place.

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At the flower shop, it is a regular Tuesday, August 24.

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And an employee is outside checking the trash cans in the dumpster.

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And there's nothing suspicious, nothing odd.

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And this is at 1130, this happens.

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At 1230, the employee checks again the dumpsters outside.

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And this time, he sees a large, round garbage bag in front of the dumpster.

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Now I'm guessing here that he tries to pick up the bag and put it into the trash can,

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but he's unable to lift it.

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Because ultimately, it is reported that three employees from the florist shop actually lift

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the bag up off of the ground and put it into the dumpster.

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One of the florist employees, her name is Nicole Findland, she was curious about the

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bag, so she punctured about four layers of heavy duty trash bags with her florist knife.

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And she says, quote, I thought I saw a strand of hair, dark, brown.

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I saw blood on the floral knife and I stopped, end quote.

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Police are called and when they arrive on scene, they find the body of Maile Lum.

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She was completely nude in the garbage bag, but had no obvious injuries or gunshot wounds.

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Quote, her body was intact, end quote, according to Lieutenant Alan Napoleon.

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Police believe that she was dead less than a day from the time she was found.

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And they begin canvassing the area because it's a really residential area and it's the

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middle of the day on a work day.

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And there are also apartments above the flower shop, but none of the residents that lived

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up there had seen anything.

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But a witness does end up coming forward.

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And this witness, she worked next door at Total Fitness USA.

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But Total Fitness USA and the florist shop, they shared a parking lot.

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So she was leaving her work around noon to run an errand and saw a purple or turquoise

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Dodge Dakota pickup truck entering the parking lot.

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But she says many cars entered the parking lot.

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She didn't say that she saw anyone dump anything or at least it's not reported.

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The next day, Wednesday, August 25th, police are able to ID Maile through her fingerprints

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and they inform her family and begin investigating her death.

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Maile's mother breaks the news to her fiance and she says, quote, he was shocked.

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Everybody was shocked, end quote.

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And that's her mother Melva.

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On Thursday of that week, the police asked the public for help for anyone who saw Maile

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Monday morning or after to come forward.

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And if anyone saw any cars or people leaving the parking lot between Beretania Florist

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and Total Fitness USA between 10 and 1 PM on Tuesday, the day that her body was found.

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And then there's nothing really in the news following this for a few weeks.

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Maile's funeral happens on September 11th, 1999.

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She's laid to rest.

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And then the next bit of news we get is at the three week mark.

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So this is September 15th or coming up on the three week mark.

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Police come forward and they ask for the public's help in looking for a van.

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Now the van was seen downtown in the Chinatown area and Maile was seen getting into this

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van and the vehicle is described as a white or light colored Ford Echoline van.

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And it's either a 1987, a 1988, 1989 or 1990 year of make for the vehicle.

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And it has swing out doors with windows on the passenger side.

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Police believe that Maile had gotten into a van of this description.

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And then at right around the one month mark, investigators began exploring the potential

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that Maile's murder had been linked to another murder.

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Her name is Michelle Anne Bensinger.

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Michelle's body had been found August 10th.

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So this is about two weeks before Maile's death and her body was found in a field.

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However, her body was so badly decomposed that the police were unable to tell the cause

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of her death.

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So her death is actually not listed as a homicide.

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It's considered a quote suspicious unattended death, but the police believe that she was

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in the field where her body was found for at least two weeks.

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So originally police believe that these two deaths are connected because both of them

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are found in the nude and they're around the same age.

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Maile is 21 and Michelle is 24.

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And this is the first connection that police kind of make.

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However, a jailhouse informant who is currently serving time for promoting prostitution per

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the newspaper, he was a convicted pimp.

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He wrote to the police and said that Maile and Michelle were working for an escort service

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called Petite Pleasures.

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Michelle was running that service and Maile was answering the phones.

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Police never confirm if these cases are connected.

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They say, quote, we're not saying they are connected, but we're not saying they are not

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connected, end quote.

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And that's Lieutenant Alan Napoleon.

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But a detective working Maile's case said that he believed there was no evidence of a link

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between these two deaths.

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The quote that the women probably knew each other and that's Detective Michael Tsuda.

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On September 24th, about a month after Maile's body was found, the family and her fiance

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are interviewed by the local newspaper.

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Her family reveal that Maile's cause of death was suffocation and police tell Melva, Maile's

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mother, that she was strangled.

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Police believe that Maile was involved in sex work, but her family maintains that they

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were not sure what she would get into downtown.

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But her younger sister Harmony says, quote, no matter what she did, we still love her,

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end quote.

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Her fiance, Ambrocio, says that his mind had been going crazy since her death.

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He said, quote, she treated me good.

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I love her a lot and she loved me too, end quote.

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He also says that he would often pick her up from the downtown area and would try to

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encourage her to stay home and leave her street life behind.

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But they never got into the specifics of what that was in the interview.

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In September of 2000, so this is coming up on a year, the FBI arrives on the island of

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Kauai due to a series of attacks against middle-aged white women on the island.

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So there were three attacks and then one woman was missing that fit the profile, but all

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of the women were beaten, sexually assaulted, and stabbed.

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Two women die, but one woman survives the attack.

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And then the fourth woman, as I mentioned, was meeting the profile and was missing.

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So the FBI and police want to try to link Maile and Michelle's death to these cases

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because, quote, then we can expedite some tests through the labs and we can get some

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assistance from them.

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We don't see any obvious connection, but the FBI profiling team may see something that

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we don't, end quote.

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And that was Lieutenant Bill Cato of the Hawaii PD Homicide Unit.

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So ultimately, Maile and Michelle's death are never linked with these attacks that happened

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on the island of Kauai.

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And these attacks are actually still unsolved today.

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There was this brief period or this moment where they thought they had solved them, but

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charges were never brought against anybody.

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There was a prime suspect in the case, but a DNA comparison came out as inconclusive.

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But it was noted that after this main suspect, he was arrested, re-arrested on a parole violation.

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These attacks stopped after he went back to jail.

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But as of 2023, these cases on Kauai have never been solved either.

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And then that's really the last time you hear of Maile.

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In 2006, police asked the public again for their help.

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They hold a press conference.

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They again are asking about the late 80, early 90 van that Maile was seen getting into, if

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anybody knows anything about that.

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And then they also bring up that purple or turquoise jeep that was seen around noon in

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that really critical time period of 1130 and 1230 when that employee was going out to check

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the dumpsters, when it seemed to be dropped really critically in that hour.

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And there was that Dodge pickup truck that was seen leaving.

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So police ask again if anybody knows any information about those vehicles in 2006 to come forward.

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But at this point, it's been almost seven years that Maile was killed.

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And in June of 2006, Lani, Maile's sister, was interviewed by the paper.

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She was 15 years old when Maile was murdered.

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And she went with her mother to the morgue and she says, quote, she didn't have a peaceful

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death.

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There were bruises on her body.

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It looked like she suffered, end quote.

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But then that's the last bit of information that I could find about Maile's death or any

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breaks in the case, any updates.

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But her murder has never been solved.

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Michelle's has never been classified as a homicide.

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So when you go onto the cold case website, her name isn't even listed because it's not

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technically a homicide, but that case was never solved.

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Her death was never solved.

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And then the Kauai murders were also never solved.

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A lot of unsolved in Hawaii that all kind of were around Maile.

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But if you know anything about Maile's murder or any of the vehicles that were mentioned,

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you can call Honolulu PD at 808-529-3111, or you can also call Crime Stoppers at 808-955-8300.

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And the sources for today's podcast come from the Honolulu Star Bulletin, the Honolulu Advertiser,

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and the Hawaii Tribune Herald.

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Okay.

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Do you have any questions for me?

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No, do you have any for me?

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I guess, like, how does a body end up in a garbage bag and it's that heavy and it's there

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for such...

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I just don't understand how that part happened.

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How her body ended up in a bag outside.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's a big question that is part of this.

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So...I guess I think I need to recap.

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Maybe like 10 minutes before you started talking about the bag, can you tell me?

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Could you remind me?

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Yeah.

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So there's the florist.

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The florist.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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The florist.

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Baretania florist.

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And so it seems like there was an employee whose job was like every hour go out and

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check the trash bag, like check the dumpsters, because he goes out at 11 a.m. or 11.30.

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I had to do that when I worked at the florist.

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Oh, yeah.

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So...

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Because you're...when you work as a florist, you have so much compost trash, quite trash.

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And it's like by the bag.

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It's like after you mow your lawn or rake your leaves, but making flowers is like the

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same amount of trash.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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So he's outside at 11.30 a.m. near the dumpsters checking them.

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Nothing's there.

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Okay.

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But he comes back at 12.30, and then there's the bag in front of the dumpster.

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That's another thing.

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I was like, it's the middle of the day.

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Yeah.

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Like what?

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And a trash bag so...because I hate saying this, but like literally physically dead weight

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feels so much heavier than a person who is alive.

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So it's just...

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Yeah, and they were four heavy duty trash bags.

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00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,080
So like those construction plastic bags.

235
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:43,080
You said four?

236
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:44,080
They were four of them.

237
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,080
Oh, all wrapped in one?

238
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:46,080
Yeah.

239
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,200
So it was like they were all inside of each other.

240
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,880
Oh, like how you...if there's like liquid in your trash, how you would put more on.

241
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:53,880
Right.

242
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:54,880
How you might double bag it.

243
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:55,880
Double bag, triple bag, yeah.

244
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:56,880
Yeah.

245
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,400
But so there were four of them all together.

246
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,080
And she was smaller.

247
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,560
She was a petite person.

248
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:07,560
She was like five foot two, weighed like around 160 pounds, I think, at this time.

249
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:15,560
So the employee of the floor shop, I'm guessing he tries to pick up the bag by himself.

250
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,120
And he can't.

251
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:22,400
And he can't because it's reported that three of them have to lift this bag to get it into

252
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,960
the dumpster.

253
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:30,600
And after they get it in the dumpster is when one of the florist workers, Nicole, is curious

254
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:37,400
about what's inside of this and opens it with her florist knife.

255
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:42,120
And so she said she punctures through all these layers of trash bag and then sees hair

256
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:44,120
and notices there's blood on her knife.

257
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,560
So then she stops and they call the police.

258
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:55,680
And then also I would be really curious at this time, it's 1999, I have to think that

259
00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:02,920
there is a database of registered vehicles on the islands of Hawaii.

260
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:09,440
And if not all of them, maybe even specifically which island?

261
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:10,840
I don't know.

262
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:19,840
But it does seem as if you could kind of quickly find everybody who owns either a purple or

263
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:26,240
turquoise Dodge Dakota pickup truck because that's kind of a unique color anyway.

264
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,240
Yeah.

265
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,480
And it's that color on a truck.

266
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,400
Most colors are white, red, blue, or black.

267
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,400
Right.

268
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:39,640
So even if it's like you pull up 50 trucks across all of Hawaii, it's like, well, that's

269
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:40,640
like a suspect.

270
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:41,640
Yeah.

271
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,400
If you have a turquoise Dodge, that's like the color of...

272
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,640
What color is turquoise?

273
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:46,640
I'm color blind, by the way.

274
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:47,640
That's why I'm asking.

275
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,000
Or like what I know it is.

276
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,360
Isn't it like Tiffany's?

277
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:54,520
It's like close to that.

278
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,000
It's like a bluish green.

279
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,480
Oh, so I really wouldn't be able to see.

280
00:18:58,480 --> 00:18:59,480
Yeah.

281
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,480
You've never seen this color in your life.

282
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,480
It's beautiful.

283
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:02,480
It's gorgeous.

284
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,160
It's a great color.

285
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,480
Yeah.

286
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,360
So that truck that's there around noon, again, it could be nothing because it is the middle

287
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:15,800
of the day in a shopping area and next to a gym.

288
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,840
It's a busy spot.

289
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:23,000
I mean, it's a great place to like discard of something because those places are constantly

290
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,840
sweeped to trash is constantly picked up, especially on an island.

291
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:31,400
They want those areas where lots of tourists are also going into them.

292
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,460
They want those spaces to be like kept up.

293
00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:40,640
So whoever dropped it knew this trash is going to be picked up, but they really fucked up

294
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,920
for multiple reasons.

295
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,360
Yeah.

296
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:52,440
So between this kind of unique color of the Dodge Dakota, but then this late 80s, early

297
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,600
90s, it's almost the year 2000.

298
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,120
Those kind of unique...

299
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:08,400
They're so specific that even if you have 50 turquoise trucks and 150 between 1988 and

300
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:18,800
1990 vans of this kind, that's still a suspect pool that you can start with and start eliminating.

301
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:19,800
Okay.

302
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,400
Figure out if the Dodge truck had anything to do with it.

303
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,680
Eliminate that because that feels like it would be the smallest pool of potential.

304
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:32,240
What you're saying is like, it's really fucking weird that no one found this car.

305
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,960
It's really weird that this hasn't been solved.

306
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:41,640
I feel as somebody in true crime, and I know you know this to be true as well, but it feels

307
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:51,160
like she didn't get the work that her case deserved because she was perceived as a sex

308
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,160
worker.

309
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,160
Yes.

310
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:59,080
It's unconfirmed if she was or wasn't, but it seems like at least early enough in the

311
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:04,220
investigation, police found out that she liked to hang out on the streets.

312
00:21:04,220 --> 00:21:07,800
She did not have an adult arrest record.

313
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,480
She had some run-ins when she was a kid, but there was no adult arrest record for her.

314
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:12,880
Well, that's the thing.

315
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:19,420
That's what I wanted to comment on in this portion is that obviously the story talks

316
00:21:19,420 --> 00:21:29,000
about sex work in a specific way, but our views of sex work is very positive and sex

317
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,700
work should be decriminalized.

318
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:31,700
That's what I believe.

319
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:32,700
Totally.

320
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:33,700
Yeah.

321
00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:36,080
Like she's a person.

322
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,080
Yeah.

323
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,440
It's a human being.

324
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,120
It doesn't... None of those things matter, but I think in talking about it right now

325
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:49,960
with you, it's important to recognize that that one small fact most likely did.

326
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,480
Most likely did push this, kick the can down the road.

327
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,760
You kind of see it with Michelle.

328
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,080
She was found naked in the middle of a field.

329
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,600
I find it very unlikely that she got herself there in that condition.

330
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:06,600
Sure.

331
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,760
I believe she was murdered, but they were unable to tell a cause of death because she

332
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,080
had been there for two weeks.

333
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,160
I'm like, really?

334
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,960
You find causes of death for people that thousands of years.

335
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,960
Yeah.

336
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:21,960
That's done.

337
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,360
Why was that never declared a homicide?

338
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:34,440
Michelle had a more active arrest record for things like sex work.

339
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,560
She had it on her name, so they weren't even classifying her as a homicide.

340
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:50,600
Then it's... Mylay didn't have those arrests on her name, but maybe had an association,

341
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,160
so just got lumped in.

342
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:58,480
It's just really sad because her sister said, no matter what she did, we loved her.

343
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,480
Exactly.

344
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:00,480
They want answers.

345
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,440
That was... I hate when people do this, but it's like that was somebody's sister, that

346
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,960
was somebody's fiance, but it's like that was somebody, somebody.

347
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:15,120
She's a person, and she had a loving home to come home to no matter what.

348
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:21,200
It just made me sad that the only way that their cases even got picked up again was when

349
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,640
these white women were attacked on the island.

350
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:24,820
Exactly.

351
00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:31,480
It was because if they could get a serial case going, then all of their tests for these

352
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,240
other attacks that were happening on Kauai could be expedited if they could show there

353
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,560
was a serial offender in Hawaii.

354
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,960
That's why they were trying to find these other deaths that could be linked with it

355
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,280
to expedite this investigation into these white women.

356
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,000
Of course, they deserve an investigation as well, but it's like everyone deserves that

357
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:58,040
kind of investigation, that kind of pressure, that kind of importance.

358
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,160
A life deserves it, point blank.

359
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,160
Yeah.

360
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,160
Oh yeah.

361
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:09,080
I also wanted to say that oftentimes, or maybe not oftentimes, but in the percentage of people

362
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:16,960
who work in sex work, there's a percentage of folks who are either they don't have a

363
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,160
choice in the work that they're doing, or they really feel like they don't have a choice,

364
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,560
or they're threatened into it.

365
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:34,960
Oftentimes there are folks with addiction who kind of end up trapped in that world.

366
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:40,740
It's possible that her family members didn't know any of that about her.

367
00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:50,680
Whether or not she was there by her own choice, or she was forced into it, that doesn't make

368
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,360
sex work as a blanket statement bad.

369
00:24:54,360 --> 00:25:00,760
It gets that descriptor because of, well, one, how people talk about it, the lack of

370
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:07,640
education and information, and because there are bad things that happen in that world.

371
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,160
But you could say that about anything.

372
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,160
Look at Wall Street.

373
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,160
You know what I'm saying?

374
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,160
Yeah.

375
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,520
Thank you so much, Allie.

376
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:25,560
I'm looking forward to doing more research about this person, and I'm glad you brought

377
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:31,560
her name back into the forefront of people's minds.

378
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,960
Yeah.

379
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,320
I just saw her picture, and that's why I started looking at this case.

380
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,920
That's usually why I start looking at any cases.

381
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,520
Somebody's picture just really calls to me.

382
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:46,520
That's beautiful.

383
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,520
I didn't know that.

384
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,520
Yeah.

385
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,560
I mean, this is a little woo-woo for our listeners out there.

386
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,640
But it's like I meditate, and I kind of ask.

387
00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:00,400
I believe in energy and in spirits in doing this work, so I'm just like, who wants to

388
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:01,480
be talked about?

389
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,480
I just let that guide me to the state I'm looking at, the area I'm looking at, and

390
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:07,480
then a picture.

391
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,960
That's how I find my cases, and it all seems to be working for me.

392
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:12,960
Very woo-woo, but-

393
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:13,960
You're going to have to pause.

394
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:14,960
I'm sorry.

395
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:15,960
That's really beautiful.

396
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:16,960
I didn't know that.

397
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,960
Thank you for sharing with me.

398
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,960
Yeah.

399
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,960
You're so cool.

400
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,840
That's also, you always ask why I double do my notes.

401
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,560
I take them digitally, and then I write them.

402
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,880
When I'm writing them, I try to meditate on the person and just spend time with them in

403
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:33,880
the writing process.

404
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,200
I think writing is a spiritual practice.

405
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,200
Yeah.

406
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:43,760
But if you are enjoying my way of finding cases and you want to keep listening and keep

407
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:50,840
up to date, go ahead and subscribe in your podcast app so that way our newest episodes

408
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:51,840
get to you.

409
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,120
If you want to leave us a review, go for it.

410
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,160
Follow us on Instagram.

411
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:02,000
You'll find pictures from our cases.

412
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,960
Please tell your friends about our podcast.

413
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:04,960
Please, please.

414
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:11,280
We want to get our cases in front of as many people because someone knows something out

415
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,920
there.

416
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,040
Someone knows something.

417
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,320
The more ears it gets into, the better.

418
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,400
But that's all we have.

419
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,280
Stay safe and have a good week, y'all.

420
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:35,960
Stay safe, y'all.