Cold and Missing: Karen Grajeda

WEBVTT

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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and

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Missing are exclusively those of the hosts. All

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parties mentioned are considered innocent until

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proven guilty in a court of law. Cold and Missing

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also contains adult themes and languages. Listener

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discretion is advised. I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin

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-Sulkowski. And I'm your co -host, Eli Sulkowski.

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And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover

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cold cases and missing person cases. Hello, everyone,

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and welcome back to Cold and Missing. I'm your

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host, Allie. And I'm your co -host, Eli. Welcome

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back, everyone. We are going to just get right

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into it this week. We're on episode 124 this

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week, and we're covering a missing case. That's

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right, episode 124. And yes, we are covering

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a missing person case today. So just as a quick

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content warning at the top, this case does involve

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a young person, and there are some brief mentions

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of sexual assault. Today, we are talking about

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the missing person case of Karen Grejeda, and

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this takes place in January of 1996 in Tucson,

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Arizona. But first, a little bit about Karen.

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Karen is 7 years old in 1996. She lives with

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her mother, Rosalba, and her younger sister,

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Alejandra, in the Suararo Crest Apartments in

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Tucson, Arizona. Karen speaks both English and

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Spanish with ease. Her mother only speaks Spanish,

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and her father lived and worked in Mexico. Her

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parents were no longer together at this time.

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Karen is a first grader at Elvira Elementary

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School, where she was known as an outgoing child.

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She liked to write poems and stories and was

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talkative. The apartment complex where she lived

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had a lot of other children, so there was always

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someone to play with, always a friend nearby.

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At this time in 1996, Karen has shoulder -length

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black hair and brown eyes. She is 3 foot 5 inches

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tall with a thin build. She was also missing

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her front teeth. And now, a timeline of events.

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On Thursday, January 11th, 1996. Karen had a

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very normal day at Elvira Elementary School and

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came home that evening and dropped her bag off

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at her apartment. She's wearing a light pastel

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flowered short and a faded purple shirt with

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white writing on the front. Karen headed outside

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to play. It appears that she hit all the major

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childhood activities. She took her bike out for

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a ride. came in and played some Super Mario on

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her Nintendo and then picked up her room a bit.

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She then headed back outside with her roller

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skates on to keep playing with her little sister

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and their friends in the complex. At around 5

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.45 p .m., Karen came back in the apartment and

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dropped off her skates and asked her mom if she

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could go back outside to play. Her mother agreed

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but reminded her that she needed to be back soon

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since dinner was almost ready. Karen told her

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mom okay and ran back outside to continue playing.

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At around 6 p .m., so just 15 minutes later,

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dinner was ready. Rosalba called for her daughters

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to come in and eat. Karen's little sister, Alejandra,

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came back to the apartment. When her mom asked

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where Karen was, she responded with that she

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didn't know. They had lost track of each other

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while they were playing. They both expected Karen

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to walk in the door at any moment. When Karen

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didn't turn up in a few minutes, Rosalba heads

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outside to look for her. There were still several

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kids playing in the courtyard. Rosalba asked

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them where Karen is, but they said they didn't

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know. Some kids say they saw Karen walk out of

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the courtyard of the apartment complex. Panic

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starts to rise in Rosalba as it gets darker and

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darker outside. It's unclear exactly when the

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police are called that evening, but it appears

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that it was pretty quickly after Karen was discovered

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missing, and the police immediately spring into

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action. Police search through the night looking

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for Karen, but no sign of her is found. The next

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day, January 12th, police start going door to

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door at the apartment complex looking for Karen.

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They start searching apartments in the complex

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as well, checking every small space that Karen

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could fit into to make sure she's not there.

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But no one in the complex said they saw anything.

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There wasn't any signs of struggle. No one heard

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a scream. No one saw anyone strange hanging around

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the apartment complex. Police talk to everyone

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who lives there, all 410 units. No sign of Karen

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is found. Police are focusing on searching nine

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square miles around the apartment. They have

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officers and volunteers searching on foot, bike,

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car, horseback, ATV, anything trying to find

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a sign of Karen. Investigators are also talking

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with registered sex offenders in the area to

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check on their alibi for the time that Karen

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went missing. As news spreads of the missing

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little girl, some possible sightings do come

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in, but none of them lead to Karen. The most

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promising was a girl matching Karen's description

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was seen crying at a grocery store a few miles

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away from the apartment complex on the night

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that Karen went missing. However, the witness

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couldn't remember exactly what time they had

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seen the girl. It would have been early evening

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through 6 .30. Karen last walked out of her apartment

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at about 5 .45 p .m., so it's a tight window

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at the end there. Karen's mother is hysterical

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by her daughter missing. To complicate matters,

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she's also pregnant at this time with her third

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daughter. Karen's family beg for her safe return.

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Since Rosalba didn't speak English, her sister

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Ruth speaks for her and her family. The family

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speaks to whoever has Karen, quote, have a bit

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of compassion for her mother. Return her as she

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is, alive or dead, because we need to end this

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torment, end quote. Police are treating Karen's

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case as a missing person, but it's not officially

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ruled a kidnapping at this point. Police say,

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quote, it's anybody's guess. We have insufficient

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information to know what happened to her. You

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get frustrated. You can theorize or suspect a

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lot of things. To be honest, we looked at everything,

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end quote. Police have theorized everything from

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Karen wandering away on her own to a stranger

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kidnapping. As that Friday day progresses, it's

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approaching 24 hours that Karen has been missing.

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There's still no sign of her, and the FBI offers

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assistance in the case. Investigators start treating

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her case more and more as a kidnapping with each

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growing hour. Over this first weekend that Karen

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went missing, police will search nonstop. They

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search all through the night and keep at it in

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the morning, just rotating officers out to sleep

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and eat, essentially. But there's always people

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looking for Karen. Volunteers come in to help

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as well, and family and friends cover Tucson

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and Flyers. But by Monday, January 15th, Karen

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has been missing since Thursday. Police say that

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they have ruled out almost every tip that has

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been called in, and it's nearly 600 of them.

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None of them led to Karen or gave any clue about

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what happened to her. The most promising lead

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over the weekend was a set of small footprints

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found on the San Xavier Reservation. When investigators

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take a closer look at the print, the size is

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half an inch too big and the tread pattern of

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the shoe didn't match the pair that Karen was

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wearing. Police now are officially handling her

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case as a kidnapping. They're back searching

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that nine miles around the complex, and it's

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reported that some drops of blood are found.

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This is sent for testing, but the results are

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never published, so it's unclear if this is related

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to Karen's case at all. About mid -afternoon

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on Monday, police end the search early and announce

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that the case is being handed off to a special

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team of 10 detectives who are going to work the

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case. Karen's father had flown in from Mexico

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to help aid in the search, and he says, quote,

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I believe that she's okay. I think they would

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have found something by now if that was not the

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case. As long as she's alive, we can work on

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handling whatever happened to her. End quote.

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On Thursday, January 18th, Karen has been missing

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for one week. Police announced that they got

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a tip on the tip line. Someone had called in

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saying that they had seen a white compact car

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cruising the area where Karen had lived. Police

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asked that whoever called in the tip to please

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call back so they can get more information and

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specifics, like when the car was seen, what time,

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where, and any description of the person or people

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inside the car that they could give. Parents

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are scared in Tucson. Karen's disappearance was

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on the heels of an attempted abduction in December

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of 1995, so a month before Karen went missing.

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A young girl was waiting inside her elementary

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school, just inside the doors, when a man approached

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and tried to get her to open the locked doors

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and go with him. The girl got scared and left

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and got a janitor and when they both returned,

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the man was gone. Then Karen vanished in January

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of 1996, just a few weeks after this. And then

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one week later, on the 18th, there was another

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attempted kidnapping. A mother and her daughter

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were playing in the backyard when the mom stepped

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inside for a moment to check on the laundry.

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When she returned just a moment later, she saw

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a man trying to lure her daughter over to him.

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The mom and the man got into a physical fight,

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and thankfully, the family's three dogs started

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to attack the man until he ran off. Police release

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a description of the man. He would have been

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in his late teens or early 20s. He was Hispanic,

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and police note that he would have had several

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dog bites at this time. The special investigating

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team continue to use the FBI resources to aid

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in their search, but still, no big breakthroughs

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in the case come and no evidence of what happened

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to Karen is found. As the weeks press on and

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January turns into February, Billboards of Karen's

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face go up around Tucson, and this continues

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to bring tips in. But again, police are able

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to rule tip after tip out, and none of them lead

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to Karen. It's been almost three weeks since

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Karen was kidnapped, and an 11 -year -old girl

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escapes an attempted abduction as well. She was

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walking just a few houses over from her own house

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to a friend's house so they could walk to school

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together. She was between the two houses when

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a man pulled up in a white, two -door, compact

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car and told her that her mother wanted him to

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drive her to school. The girl takes off running

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to her friend's house, where the friend's older

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brother was outside and saw the whole interaction.

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The driver of the car was described as a white

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man with short to medium -length hair, and he

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was wearing a black and white checkered shirt.

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As it approaches one month that Karen is missing,

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police and FBI return to the apartment complex

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and re -interview all the residents. Investigators

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remain optimistic that Karen is still alive.

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Quote, So we're pretty optimistic that she is

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still alive and that someone is just hanging

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onto her out there for some reason, end quote.

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But the lack of leads is making it difficult

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for police. The FBI wants to create a profile

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of the kidnapper, but there's not enough evidence

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to give them information to build the profile.

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In March, so it's been over two months now since

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Karen was kidnapped, and her mother begs for

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her return and sends a message to her daughter.

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She says, quote, Please help me find my daughter,

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and I'll be grateful to you for the rest of my

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life. Whatever kind of information you have,

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please dial 911. Karen, it's your mommy. Wherever

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you are, we will find you, darling. Go to a nearby

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telephone and dial 911. We will go for you. I

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and your sister love you and are waiting here

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for you. End quote. Police say that their investigation

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has intensified over the last few months, but

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declined to give any other update. The next update

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comes at the end of May, so Karen has been missing

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for over four months. A police sketch is released

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of a man that was wanted in a series of sexual

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assaults against young girls in 1993, three years

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before Karen vanished. However, police believe

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that the same suspect could be connected to Karen's

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case and another unsolved murder of a young girl

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in the area. Eventually, police will arrest Rodolfo

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Sedeno Morales and charge him in relation to

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the 1993 sexual assaults. He is ultimately found

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guilty in 1998 for kidnapping five girls and

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assaulting three of them. He is serving a 248

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-year sentence. Police tie Morales to the unsolved

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murder since he does match a suspect sketch in

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that case, and police link him to Karen's case

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since she matches the profile of the other victims,

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young Hispanic girls who all lived on the south

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side of Tucson in apartment complexes. Additionally,

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to further tie Morales to Karen's case, he had

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lived in the same apartment complex as Karen

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previously. He didn't live there at the time

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of her disappearance, but he still had friends

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that lived at the complex. He remains a strong

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suspect in Karen's case, and really the only

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suspect ever named in her case. Years go by,

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and Karen's case is mentioned in the media, especially

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around anniversaries of her disappearance. Her

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mother is a champion of her case and keeps it

00:15:04.299 --> 00:15:07.120
in the media, but there are no new updates, no

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new leads, no new suspects. Until 2023. In 2023,

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Karen has been missing for over 27 years, and

00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.120
police will, without getting into specifics,

00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:22.080
say that they are looking at some new suspects.

00:15:23.210 --> 00:15:25.830
They still don't have anything solid in Karen's

00:15:25.830 --> 00:15:28.389
case, but the unsolved murder that I mentioned

00:15:28.389 --> 00:15:31.409
that we'll cover on a future episode of Cold

00:15:31.409 --> 00:15:35.330
and Missing had had advances in forensic technology

00:15:35.330 --> 00:15:37.710
and the police were looking at a new suspect.

00:15:39.450 --> 00:15:43.529
Police believe that Karen's case could be connected

00:15:43.529 --> 00:15:47.330
to this unsolved murder. However, Karen's family

00:15:47.330 --> 00:15:50.850
believe that Morales is guilty of kidnapping

00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:55.320
Karen. But that is all we know about the kidnapping

00:15:55.320 --> 00:16:01.059
of Karen Grejeda in January of 1996. So if you

00:16:01.059 --> 00:16:03.279
know anything about the disappearance of Karen

00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.480
or her whereabouts today, please call the Tucson

00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:15.820
Police at 520 -791 -4444. So that is the case

00:16:15.820 --> 00:16:21.190
of Karen Grejeda. All of the cases that you bring

00:16:21.190 --> 00:16:24.230
to Cold and Missing and that you cover, of course,

00:16:24.250 --> 00:16:28.850
frighten and scare me to listen to them, but

00:16:28.850 --> 00:16:32.370
Karen's case was one of those cases where it

00:16:32.370 --> 00:16:35.850
immediately frightened me. I was very nervous

00:16:35.850 --> 00:16:41.129
listening to this story because it was very easy

00:16:41.129 --> 00:16:46.649
to imagine myself, a 90s kid, the way she...

00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:49.720
Kind of did her little tour when she got home

00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:54.039
from school, was very similar to mine. And this

00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:59.419
one was very palpable and heartbreaking, very

00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:02.639
hard to listen to. Yeah, I thought that was something

00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:04.619
that was really familiar about the case, too,

00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:08.940
was just how normal the after -school activity

00:17:08.940 --> 00:17:11.400
was. Like her, you know, running in and out,

00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:13.880
mom cooking dinner, her and her siblings, the

00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.319
kids in the apartment complex playing, like...

00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:19.779
All of that was so very familiar to me and felt

00:17:19.779 --> 00:17:23.480
familiar to me. And I think that's, you know,

00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.680
kind of aids in, like, how terrifying this case

00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.779
feels because it feels familiar. Yeah, and with

00:17:31.779 --> 00:17:36.019
the familiarity, the other side of that coin

00:17:36.019 --> 00:17:38.839
is the predictability for someone who is trying

00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:44.220
to commit a crime like kidnapping, knowing someone's

00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:47.390
schedule, you know. after school schedule or

00:17:47.390 --> 00:17:50.809
whatever the familiarity of her routine felt

00:17:50.809 --> 00:17:53.690
there was a moment of safety in my connection

00:17:53.690 --> 00:17:58.329
to it and immediately was you know ripped away

00:17:58.329 --> 00:18:01.470
because I knew that there was a possibility that

00:18:01.470 --> 00:18:04.009
maybe she was being watched while she was just

00:18:04.009 --> 00:18:07.650
doing her thing. One thing that does kind of

00:18:07.650 --> 00:18:09.769
feel just to pivot into this case a little bit

00:18:09.769 --> 00:18:14.670
is that For Karen to be kidnapped, it was a very

00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:19.750
bold move just because this is a big apartment

00:18:19.750 --> 00:18:25.569
complex, 410 units. It kind of looks like two

00:18:25.569 --> 00:18:28.690
squares sitting next to each other and then courtyards

00:18:28.690 --> 00:18:31.369
in the center. So, you know, everyone would be

00:18:31.369 --> 00:18:33.509
able to see into the courtyard from their building.

00:18:35.029 --> 00:18:39.240
So would have been a very bold. kidnapping because

00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:41.400
there's all these eyes there's kids running around

00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:43.660
there's a lot of presence and you know there's

00:18:43.660 --> 00:18:49.000
people outside so yeah this this case baffles

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:55.119
me in a lot of ways um and the disruption of

00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:57.099
the routine like you were saying the watching

00:18:57.099 --> 00:19:00.160
like all of that feels present in this case even

00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.519
though we really don't know that much about what

00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.470
really happened I think because we have covered

00:19:07.470 --> 00:19:12.910
cases similar to Karen's, just from investigating

00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:18.690
and listening, you learn the behaviors of perpetrators.

00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:25.990
So when I listened to a case, sadly, I understood

00:19:25.990 --> 00:19:29.890
how this would have been a perfect spot for someone

00:19:29.890 --> 00:19:34.420
who was trying to... maybe committed kidnapping.

00:19:35.380 --> 00:19:40.140
I think that, yes, it is very bold to do it,

00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:43.359
you know, mid -afternoon, after school, dinner's

00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.940
getting ready, a lot of people around. But also,

00:19:46.019 --> 00:19:48.980
is it a perfect environment for someone like

00:19:48.980 --> 00:19:52.299
that to blend in? And I think that's absolutely

00:19:52.299 --> 00:19:55.440
possible, especially if, you know, they fit the

00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.299
demographic of the folks who are already living

00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:02.509
there. The familiarity of Maybe a white compact

00:20:02.509 --> 00:20:06.670
car not looking out of place. Those were all

00:20:06.670 --> 00:20:10.750
things that crossed my mind. Yeah. And that is

00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:13.569
something that, like, I come back to. Like, the

00:20:13.569 --> 00:20:17.089
person who did this fit in there in some way.

00:20:17.170 --> 00:20:20.509
Like, didn't draw attention to themselves, really.

00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:23.660
Because nobody, you know, they asked. All the

00:20:23.660 --> 00:20:25.500
residents, did you see anything? Did you see

00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:28.059
anybody out of the ordinary? And nobody said

00:20:28.059 --> 00:20:31.480
they saw anybody strange. Nobody knew or unfamiliar

00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:35.200
hanging around. So it leads me to believe that

00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:38.799
it's either, you know, somebody in the apartment

00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:45.059
complex proper or somebody who, you know, was

00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:47.220
in and around it a lot and would have just blended

00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:51.430
in. Yeah, I think that just adds another piece

00:20:51.430 --> 00:20:56.049
to an ever -growing puzzle. The possibility of

00:20:56.049 --> 00:20:59.150
it being a bunch of different people who may

00:20:59.150 --> 00:21:02.730
be committed a kidnapping of Karen in such a

00:21:02.730 --> 00:21:06.150
concentrated area can really mess with the community.

00:21:06.730 --> 00:21:11.210
I know I'm often, I think I'm kind of hard on

00:21:11.210 --> 00:21:14.609
law enforcement in a lot of our cases and what

00:21:14.609 --> 00:21:17.519
we cover because You know, they are cold and

00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:19.700
missing cases and we do see a lot of mistakes,

00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:24.319
but I really appreciated the transparency of

00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:27.960
law enforcement here and their willingness to

00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:32.359
circle back, even to go back into that same community

00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:35.460
and ask questions again, interview people again,

00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:39.720
interview the sex offenders in that area. That

00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.019
was a question that I wanted to ask you. Is that

00:21:42.019 --> 00:21:46.619
a normal response when there is... A child who

00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:48.720
goes missing that, you know, boots on the ground,

00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:53.539
we're going to go to these people first. Yeah,

00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:58.299
it is a pretty standard response. It really started

00:21:58.299 --> 00:22:02.160
probably like mid -90s, I think, you know, once

00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:06.990
the sex offender registry was created. published

00:22:06.990 --> 00:22:08.970
and then the law is really starting to get enforced.

00:22:09.349 --> 00:22:10.910
That's one thing that's talked about in this

00:22:10.910 --> 00:22:13.269
list is that the laws around the sex registry

00:22:13.269 --> 00:22:16.549
offender list weren't really enforced. So they

00:22:16.549 --> 00:22:18.569
actually found a lot of people like out of compliance,

00:22:18.849 --> 00:22:21.589
not updating, you know, where they were living,

00:22:21.690 --> 00:22:23.910
their address, things like that. So that was

00:22:23.910 --> 00:22:26.250
actually found through this investigation quite

00:22:26.250 --> 00:22:30.430
a bit. Following law enforcement's timeline and

00:22:30.430 --> 00:22:33.710
just checklist of investigative work that they

00:22:33.710 --> 00:22:36.420
needed to do. I wanted to know if there was any

00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:40.980
follow -up of, you know, the report of the girl

00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:45.220
crying in the grocery store. If there was, I

00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:48.420
know it was 96, but I was curious to know if

00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:51.279
there was maybe footage pulled from the grocery

00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:55.460
store just to see who that girl was. So from

00:22:55.460 --> 00:22:58.180
my understanding, there wasn't footage in this

00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:03.440
time in 1996. And police... I do believe tried

00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:09.059
to follow up with this lead, but it doesn't seem

00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:12.220
like they were ever able to really find the girl,

00:23:12.299 --> 00:23:14.759
find exactly who the girl was that was there.

00:23:14.859 --> 00:23:18.180
So this is like one lead that just kind of never

00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:21.700
got resolved. Yeah, I think circling back to

00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:26.599
it for me is just wishful thinking. Could you

00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:30.859
bring us back to the moment where... small shoe

00:23:30.859 --> 00:23:34.640
prints were found. I just, I want to clarify

00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:40.420
some details there. So, you know, in the 24 hours

00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:43.240
following after Karen goes missing, a report

00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:46.339
comes in from the San Xavier Reservation Police

00:23:46.339 --> 00:23:49.859
that they found footprints on the reservation.

00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:52.559
They were small footprints and they were the

00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:57.400
same brand of shoe that Karen was wearing. So

00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:00.039
when investigators got there and took a closer

00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.140
look at it, the shoe was half a size too big

00:24:03.140 --> 00:24:06.920
from what Karen wore, and the tread, the pattern

00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:09.859
on the bottom of the shoe, was different, slightly

00:24:09.859 --> 00:24:13.059
different than the pattern that was on the bottom

00:24:13.059 --> 00:24:15.539
of Karen's shoe that she was wearing. So ultimately,

00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:19.440
the footprints are ruled out. Obviously, I am

00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.420
not a detective, not law enforcement, but the

00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:27.549
thought did cross my mind that maybe the The

00:24:27.549 --> 00:24:31.269
perpetrator had the thought to change the shoes.

00:24:32.950 --> 00:24:39.109
Now knowing more details about them being the

00:24:39.109 --> 00:24:42.789
same but just a little bit bigger, I guess to

00:24:42.789 --> 00:24:47.109
answer my own question or wrap up my own thought,

00:24:47.309 --> 00:24:51.289
if a shoe was going to be changed, it would probably

00:24:51.289 --> 00:24:53.950
be a completely different shoe. I didn't know

00:24:53.950 --> 00:24:56.980
if you... If you had any more thoughts or feelings

00:24:56.980 --> 00:25:01.480
about those footprints. No, I had the same thing

00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:03.640
where I kept wanting to like come back to those

00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.599
footprints and be like, well, like what if her

00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:08.640
shoe was just a little bit bigger? But then I

00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.920
found additional reports that it was the same

00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:14.380
brand of shoe, but just the tread was different.

00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.859
So like you, I was like, OK, yeah, if somebody

00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:20.720
were to change shoes or even, you know, I don't

00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:22.920
know, your foot sliding around when you're walking

00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.730
or whatever, like. It would it would feel that

00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:30.369
these would not be Karen. But if I remember correctly,

00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:33.710
they were next to like a set of adult footprints.

00:25:34.809 --> 00:25:37.609
So that was another reason that, you know, this

00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:41.190
was thought that it could be Karen. I feel kind

00:25:41.190 --> 00:25:44.529
of uncomfortable with what I want to say, but

00:25:44.529 --> 00:25:47.250
I think it's because I just don't like the reality

00:25:47.250 --> 00:25:53.160
of the sentence. But to me, Arizona. Just itself,

00:25:53.299 --> 00:25:55.940
like the state itself, the terrain, the weather,

00:25:56.019 --> 00:26:01.859
it seems like a good state, place, terrain to

00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:04.119
disappear someone if that's what you are trying

00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:08.220
to do. I hate that my brain kind of went there.

00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:11.519
Yeah, Arizona is one of those states where you

00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.220
really have all sorts of terrain depending on

00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:15.759
where you are in the state. You know, up north

00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.420
is mountainous and, you know, we'll get snow

00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:21.660
and then more south is more desert. And, you

00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:25.119
know, it was January when this case took place,

00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:27.779
but Karen was, you know, in shorts and a t -shirt

00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:31.460
because it was warm outside. So you get, you

00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:33.839
know, the full kind of spectrum of weather in

00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:38.119
Arizona. With that comes a lot of different terrain,

00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.019
and from my understanding, there's a lot of rural

00:26:41.019 --> 00:26:47.099
terrain. So I think there is a lot of space that's

00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:51.420
very difficult to search and very difficult to

00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:53.700
locate somebody. You know, it's hard just to

00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:58.299
find lost, like, hikers in the desert where you

00:26:58.299 --> 00:27:00.119
kind of know where their last location was, let

00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.250
alone just... Trying to find somebody, period.

00:27:03.269 --> 00:27:06.809
So, yeah, the desert is one of those spaces where

00:27:06.809 --> 00:27:11.450
it's very easy to lose track of somebody. My

00:27:11.450 --> 00:27:14.309
brain is bouncing around quite a bit with this

00:27:14.309 --> 00:27:18.710
case, and I think it's the natural inclination

00:27:18.710 --> 00:27:23.569
is to try to solve it. But my last question for

00:27:23.569 --> 00:27:27.609
you about this case is about Karen's case. Do

00:27:27.609 --> 00:27:32.910
you think that it was Morales? It is very hard

00:27:32.910 --> 00:27:36.549
for me to rule him out as a suspect. You know,

00:27:36.549 --> 00:27:39.130
something that an investigator or maybe it was

00:27:39.130 --> 00:27:40.910
a prosecutor, I can't quite remember at the time.

00:27:41.390 --> 00:27:43.730
But something that somebody said was that, like,

00:27:43.750 --> 00:27:47.589
these attempted abductions and this string of

00:27:47.589 --> 00:27:49.410
abductions that seemed to be happening stopped

00:27:49.410 --> 00:27:55.230
after Morales was arrested. So I think there's

00:27:55.230 --> 00:27:58.789
something to that. But, you know, he also doesn't

00:27:58.789 --> 00:28:02.579
fit. All the descriptions like, you know, one

00:28:02.579 --> 00:28:05.640
of the descriptions, it was a white guy. And,

00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:09.359
you know, in that unsolved murder there, they

00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:12.680
think that it was not somebody who was Hispanic.

00:28:12.740 --> 00:28:16.359
So there's just like a lot of moving pieces.

00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:18.799
And I think he's a really good suspect in this

00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:22.079
case. And until I'm able to fully rule him out,

00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:25.160
I think I would keep him, you know, like in the

00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:29.369
suspect pool. And, you know, I. I hope that investigators

00:28:29.369 --> 00:28:32.269
continue to try to talk to him. You know, he's

00:28:32.269 --> 00:28:34.410
still in jail from my understanding. He's still

00:28:34.410 --> 00:28:39.029
serving time. So if he is responsible, hopefully

00:28:39.029 --> 00:28:42.750
we can get some answers someday. I think besides

00:28:42.750 --> 00:28:48.910
not knowing where Karen is, the unbearable heartbreak

00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:52.829
of this case is her mom and sisters at the center

00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:57.240
of this experiencing a pregnancy. During this

00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:04.259
time, again, very palpable. I, you know, you

00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:09.660
can feel how she yearns for her daughter. Just

00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:13.220
an answer, a few answers, you know, you can feel

00:29:13.220 --> 00:29:16.940
the desperation. And I really hope that that

00:29:16.940 --> 00:29:21.960
desperation turns into justice and answers for

00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:25.359
this family. Some form of justice, which I think

00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:29.119
would, just be a little bit of knowledge. Yeah,

00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:32.380
Karen's family is still wanting answers in this

00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:35.000
case. They still want to know where she is, what

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.440
happened to her. So I would love for the family

00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.960
to get those answers and for Karen to come home

00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:47.079
in whatever way that looks like. You know, Karen

00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:49.839
should come home and her family should have answers.

00:29:50.779 --> 00:29:53.940
And I hope that we're able to get them in this

00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:57.529
case as you know, other cold cases get solved

00:29:57.529 --> 00:30:01.170
and more and more of them get closed, hopefully

00:30:01.170 --> 00:30:04.930
we get more information on Karen. But again,

00:30:05.029 --> 00:30:07.009
if you know anything about the disappearance

00:30:07.009 --> 00:30:11.009
of Karen in January of 1996 or her whereabouts

00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:13.930
today, please call the Tucson Police Department

00:30:13.930 --> 00:30:21.339
at 520 -791 -4444. We will have pictures of Karen

00:30:21.339 --> 00:30:24.779
on our Instagram at coldandmissing and included

00:30:24.779 --> 00:30:26.960
in those pictures will be some aged progressed

00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.319
pictures of what she would look like into her

00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:32.279
20s. So please check those out. Please share

00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:34.380
them. Get Karen's name out there. Get her picture

00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:36.900
out there just in case anybody recognizes her

00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:39.720
and we could get some answers in this case. And

00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:41.900
please follow along if you're not at coldandmissing

00:30:41.900 --> 00:30:45.559
.com. We have all of our old episodes on there.

00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:47.779
You can rate and review us there. We also have

00:30:47.779 --> 00:30:49.990
transcripts. If you or someone you love is hard

00:30:49.990 --> 00:30:51.750
of hearing, you can find all those at our website,

00:30:52.009 --> 00:30:55.690
www .coldandmissing .com. And thank you so much

00:30:55.690 --> 00:30:57.690
to everyone who has rated and reviewed us this

00:30:57.690 --> 00:31:00.450
week. I was able to just watch the reviews just

00:31:00.450 --> 00:31:02.329
kind of tick up and up and up and up. And it

00:31:02.329 --> 00:31:05.009
was so exciting to just see those reviews come

00:31:05.009 --> 00:31:07.190
in, to see these kind reviews come in. So thank

00:31:07.190 --> 00:31:11.069
you so much. You know, Apple Podcasts, it only

00:31:11.069 --> 00:31:15.089
understands subscribes, reviews, five stars.

00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:20.480
Give us a minute of your time and rate and review

00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:23.180
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00:31:23.180 --> 00:31:25.599
goes for Spotify, for Pandora, for everywhere

00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:27.599
else you're listening. If you could rate us and

00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:29.579
review us, that's the only way that our little

00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:32.700
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00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:35.279
it with people in your life, that works too.

00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:37.980
So thank you if you've done it. Please do it

00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:40.519
again. I'm sorry I always have to end the podcast

00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:43.759
this way. But that is all I have for you this

00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.039
week. Thank you so much for listening to Cold

00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:49.420
and Missing. I'm Allie. And I'm Eli. Have a good

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week and stay safe, y 'all. Stay safe, y 'all.