Transcript
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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.
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All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
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Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages.
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Listener discretion is advised.
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I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.
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And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski.
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And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover cold cases and missing person cases.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing.
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I am your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.
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And I am solo this week.
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If it is no surprise to you that this is coming out on a Wednesday instead of Monday and that
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I am by myself, then thank you for following along on Instagram.
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If you don't follow us on Instagram, I'm sorry to announce that Eli's mother passed
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away unexpectedly this week.
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So we spent the weekend with family celebrating her life and her memory.
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So I just want to encourage everyone to love the ones you love.
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Call someone up, tell them you love them.
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Time is our most finite resource.
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And it's just always really sad to say goodbye to somebody.
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So I am by myself this week while Eli takes some time to heal and mourn, which is completely
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understandable.
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And he is well loved and being checked on by a lot of amazing people.
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So thank you, those of you who commented on our Instagram post.
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I really appreciate the love and support.
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I know Eli does as well.
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Just thank you to everybody.
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And thank you for understanding that our episode came out a little bit later this week.
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But with that said, this week we have a cold case.
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And just as a content warning at the top, this case does involve a young person and
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there is mention of sexual assault.
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Today we are talking about the cold case of Larry Jo Phebus.
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And this takes place in Tioga, North Dakota in October of 1962.
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But first a little bit about Larry Jo.
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Larry Jo was 14 years old in 1962.
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He was born May 8th, 1948 and he would be 75 years old today.
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Larry Jo had recently moved to Tioga, North Dakota with his older brother Chester Phebus.
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Chester was working in the oil fields and Larry Jo had come with him.
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The brothers were from Indiana originally.
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Larry Jo was behind in school so he was still in the sixth grade at 14 years old.
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But his teacher said that he was well adjusted and got along great with the other kids in
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his class.
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Even though he struggled with school, he would often take his school books home to re-read
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the day's lessons.
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Larry Jo would often tell his classmates and his teachers all about his family and
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the love that he had for his siblings.
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Larry Jo was one of six.
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Chester and Larry Jo lived at the Traveler's Hotel with another young man named Sam Wallace.
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Sam was 19 years old and he was also working in the oil field with Chester.
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He treated Larry Jo like a little brother and the three young men got along great.
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Larry Jo, however, wasn't loving North Dakota.
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He thought it was way too cold there and he was looking to move to a warmer state soon.
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Larry Jo also had a habit of hitchhiking according to his brother and Sam Wallace.
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His brother Chester said that he would often hitchhike between Tioga and Ray, North Dakota,
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where he would visit the family of the girl that Sam Wallace was dating and would eventually
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marry.
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Ray, North Dakota, is roughly 15 miles from Tioga.
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And according to Chester, the farthest that Larry Jo had ever hitchhiked was about 30
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miles.
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And now a timeline of events.
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So for the timeline, it's unclear when Larry Jo first became missing.
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There are reports that he was last seen October 17th and October 20th, 1962.
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I believe, based off of my research, that Saturday, October 20th is the correct date
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based off of the timeline that Larry Jo's brother Chester gives police.
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So on Friday, October 20th, 1962, Chester, Phebus and Sam Wallace have a double date.
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They plan on going to the movies in Williston, North Dakota, which is about an hour away
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from Tioga.
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Larry Jo asks to come along with the two of them, but they both say no and tell him
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to stay at the hotel.
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According to Chester, Larry Jo said, quote, you'll be sorry you aren't taking me with
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you, end quote.
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Chester and Sam last saw Larry wearing blue jeans, a green, brown and white sports shirt,
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black loafers, dark socks, and a black sports coat with a front zipper.
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Larry Jo stood around five foot with a slender build and sandy blonde hair.
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Chester and Sam head out on their double date, and when they return later that evening from
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the movies, Larry Jo is gone.
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Chester says, quote, he never went anywhere, to the store or to play football or anywhere
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without leaving a note telling us where he was going, end quote.
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On Sunday, October 21st, 1962, this is the next day after Larry Jo has been missing,
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Chester spends all day looking for him.
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Chester says, quote, I talked to his two closest friends in Tioga and checked with other people
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in Tioga and Ray, but nobody had seen him since Saturday night, end quote.
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On Monday, October 22nd, 1962, Larry Jo has been missing for two days.
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Chester officially reports Larry Jo missing to the police.
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He also starts calling relatives, letting them know that Larry Jo is missing and hoping
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that he might have turned up at one of their houses.
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One by one, people are alerted and nobody has heard from or seen Larry Jo.
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In December of 1962, so Larry Jo has been missing for about two months now, Chester
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will leave North Dakota and go live with his mother in Lacombe, California.
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He leaves North Dakota because he's being asked to serve 30 days in jail.
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And I thought this was interesting to read.
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So they wanted him to spend five days in jail for running a stop sign, 15 days in jail for
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no car registration, and another 15 days in jail for no driver's license.
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So 30 days in total.
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Instead of turning himself in to serve this time, he flees to California.
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On March 28th, 1963, so it's been five months since the last time Larry Jo was seen alive,
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farmer Clark Jenner and a hired farmhand John Mann were walking the fields picking up rocks
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when they discover a partially nude teenage boy body in the field.
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His hands were tied to his neck with a clothesline cord.
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Jenner farm was about two and a half miles from Alexander, North Dakota, which is about
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an hour and a half away from Tioga where Larry Jo was last seen.
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Farmer Jenner first calls Larry Lloyd Powell, who was the county commissioner since he farmed
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nearby.
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It's unclear by who or when but the police are eventually called and come out to look
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at the scene.
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Police notice that the body is scratched and bruised still.
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His clothes are found with and around him.
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There is no ID, but the clothing found with the body matches what Larry Jo was last seen
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in and Sam Wallace is able to confirm that the jacket found with the body is Larry Jo's.
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Sam says, quote, I know it's his jacket.
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I gave him the money to buy it.
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I know it's him.
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End quote.
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In the pocket of the jacket, police find a dollar and 40 cents all in change and a small
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light bulb.
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Since the body and the clothing match the description of Larry Jo, police are tentatively
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IDing him as Larry Jo, but they will confirm with dental work during the autopsy.
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Police are also unsure if where the body was found was where the murder took place or if
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it was just a dumping ground.
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Nearby the body, police find Larry Jo's shoes, beer cans, pot bottles, a brown jersey
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glove and either a towel or a piece of a car seat cover that was made of green Turkish
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cloth.
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Police are able to determine right away that Larry Jo was sexually assaulted since his
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pants and boxers were found around his ankles.
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The county commissioner who lived nearby told police that he recalled seeing a strange car
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in the area around November or December of 1962.
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Near the body, police find old car tire tracks.
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The next day, Friday, March 29th, 1963, Larry Jo's autopsy is conducted and it's confirmed
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that he was sexually assaulted and died from strangulation.
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Police are also able to confirm with a local dentist that it was Larry Jo.
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A pathologist believed that Larry Jo's body had been in the field since December.
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Police get a hold of Chester and his mother Mary in California.
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Larry Jo's mother is distraught at hearing the news of her son's murder.
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Chester arranges to head back to North Dakota to help with the police investigation.
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Police have no idea which way to turn on this one.
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Sheriff Leroy Lutt says, quote, We have nothing really concrete to go on yet, end quote.
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However, on Saturday, March 30th, just a few days after finding Larry Jo's body, police
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appear to get a break when they find a car that had belonged to the Phebuses.
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It was abandoned on a county road and had been kept in a garage in Williston.
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Police theorize that the light bulb that Larry Jo had in his pocket was intended as a replacement
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for the tail light in the car.
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Police refuse to comment on if the tire tracks found near the body match the vehicle that
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had been abandoned.
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Those are really all the details I could find around the car, but I personally have a lot
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of questions surrounding this car.
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Police also look at other unsolved cases in the area to see if there are any connections,
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but the investigation has stalled.
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They're hoping with Chester coming back to the area that they'll generate some leaves
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from talking with him.
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Sheriff Leroy Lutt says, quote, We're living in hope that the brother can give us a missing
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link that will help us solve the crime.
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We're hoping and praying we can solve this thing quickly.
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It's a terribly gruesome thing, end quote.
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On Tuesday, April 2nd, this is four days after Larry Jo's body was found, Chester Phoebus
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arrives in North Dakota to talk with police.
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First, police bring Chester to visually ID Larry Jo's body.
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Upon seeing the body, though, Chester is unable to positively ID it as his brother Larry Jo.
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After this police bring in Chester for questioning, but at the end of the day, they say they didn't
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learn anything from him that they didn't already know from Sam Wallace.
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Police do mention that they are interested in talking with a truck driver that was believed
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to have been a friend of Larry Jo's.
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And I use the term friend loosely here since it sounds like this was a grown man that was
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befriending a 14 year old.
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Mary, Larry Jo's mother, decides that she wants his body sent back to Indiana to be
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laid to rest.
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The next day, Chester requests that police perform an x-ray on the body to confirm if
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it is Larry Jo.
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Chester tells police that his brother had broken his collarbone when he was younger,
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so it should show up on an x-ray.
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Police do the x-ray the same day and they are able to find the scar of a broken collarbone
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on the body.
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Between this, the clothing, and the dental records, police do confirm that it is Larry
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Jo, but they do say that they will have experts review it.
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Police continue to question Chester about the murder of his brother.
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Finally, Chester asks the police to give him a lie detector test so that he can clear his
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name.
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Both him and Sam Wallace are given polygraphs and they both pass.
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On Saturday, April 13th, 1963, 16 days since Larry Jo's body was found and 5 and a half
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months since he was last seen alive, Larry Jo is laid to rest in Moumee Cemetery in Owensville,
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Indiana.
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Police continue to investigate Larry Jo's murder behind the scenes.
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The next month, in May, police in North Dakota work with Alaskan authorities to hold a former
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Tioga man for questioning.
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Police in North Dakota say that he used to work in the area as an oil field operator
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and left town around the same time that Larry Jo disappeared.
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The man refused to take a polygraph test and denied that he had ever lived in Tioga.
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According to police, he had given an employer in North Dakota a forwarding address, which
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is how they were able to track the man down.
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In October of 1963, so it had been one year since Larry Jo was last seen alive, police
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are still not close to solving the case.
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They do say they have two suspects, one being a man in Alaska who is being held in a state
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mental hospital, but police do say that they are close to almost ruling him out as a suspect
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completely.
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I have to wonder if this is the same guy in Alaska that police had held for questioning
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that I had just mentioned a few minutes ago.
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The second suspects, they don't give any details about and they say that they haven't
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talked to him yet, so I have no idea who this person could even be.
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Sheriff Leroy Lutz says, quote, The killer could be very well in this area, right within
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a couple blocks of me, end quote.
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Police confirm that Chester and Sam are no longer suspects.
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Police also plan to turn the case over to another county.
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So Williams County had originally handled the case.
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Tioga where Larry Jo was last seen alive was in Williams County.
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All the work that had been done up until this point had been done by Williams County, but
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now it was going to be handed off to Mackenzie County, which is where Larry Jo's body was
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found.
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At this point in October of 1963, Mackenzie County had not worked the case at all and
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had not even reviewed it according to the newspaper reports at the time.
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And that is truly the last update that we get on Larry Jo's murder.
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It truly seems like once it got passed off to another police agency that the case just
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really goes cold.
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If you know anything about the death of Larry Jo Phebus in 1962, please contact the Mackenzie
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County Sheriff's Department at 701-444-3654.
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And the sources for the timeline today come from the Argus leader, the Billing Gazette,
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St. Cloud Times, Rushville Republican, the Missouliyan, Rapid City Journal, the Republic,
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Great Falls Tribune, Evansville Press, Ames Daily Tribune, the Bismarck Tribune, and Princeton
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Daily-Claron.
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So that is the case of Larry Jo Phoebus.
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And I actually found this case because it is the oldest cold case in North Dakota, which
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I just thought was interesting.
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I thought, what is the oldest cold case in North Dakota?
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And it is this unsolved case of a 14-year-old.
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I was really kind of blown away by Larry Jo's life.
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Like the fact that 14, he was kind of, you know, starting to drift around the United
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States, but he was still committed to school.
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You know, he signed himself up for school in North Dakota.
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Perhaps his brother was, you know, adamant that he go to school if he was going to be
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with him in North Dakota.
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But, you know, it's also easy to imagine a 14-year-old boy, his brother, who is only
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21 at this time, and then Sam Wallace, who also lived with him, being 19 years old, you
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know, to kind of see all these young boys living together.
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And maybe school wouldn't have been a priority, but it really did seem to be one for Larry
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Jo.
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I have a lot of questions in this case.
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And, you know, if I could sit down today with police and just ask anything I want, the first
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thing I would want to know a lot more about is this car that was found abandoned in December.
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So the car originally belonged to either Chester or Larry.
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It was registered to a Phoebus.
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We don't know who.
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It's not confirmed.
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I would imagine it's Chester, you know, just based off of ages.
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You know, at 14.
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I don't know how many 14-year-olds had their own car in 1962.
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But I question where was it found?
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Where was it abandoned?
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I know Chester leaves North Dakota in December of 1962 because he kind of has, it seems like
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some run-ins with his car.
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You know, he runs a stop sign and then they're asking him to do jail time for the stop sign
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stop, which I thought was crazy, the thought of doing jail time for not stopping at a stop
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sign.
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It just seems nuts to me.
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But then also there was no registration and he didn't have a license.
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So was that when this abandoned car was found?
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And was that how maybe all of this started was around that?
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But I have a lot of questions because police seemed to tie Larry Jo to the car with the
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light bulb in the pocket.
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Originally the newspaper's reports say that it was like a flashlight light bulb that he
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was carrying in his pocket, but then police later theorized that it is a replacement for
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the taillight of this car.
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So if he had that, was it in October that this car was found?
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So obviously I have a lot of questions.
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I don't understand exactly all the details around this car.
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And the other thing I have a big question about, Larry Jo was last seen in October,
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but the pathologist during the autopsy believes that his body was put in the field in December.
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So that gives roughly two months of Larry Jo being missing before his body is put in
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that field.
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So was he alive during this time?
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Was he being held?
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Police say that they see scratches and bruising on the body when they find it in March.
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So this would be three months later.
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This is still evident.
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And I'm not sure if this is just because North Dakota is cold.
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So there would be freezing of the body, which might have helped preserve some of, preserve
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the body from not only decomposition, but like, you know, save some of the bruising,
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save some of the scratches.
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So there's just questions around that.
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I'm very curious about all of that.
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And then I just have to wonder because there were these items found around the body, you
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know, his shoes were found nearby, but also pop bottles and beer bottles and a glove and
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some very specific cloth, like this green Turkish cloth that they believe either came
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from a towel or a car seat.
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Could any of that be tested for DNA?
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I would be really curious about about that.
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You know, are we in a place where DNA testing is advanced enough that they could do it on
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these pretty old items because I do know there is a, you know, DNA can degrade over time
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and you know, there's kind of a shelf life to it, so to speak on objects.
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So I am not an expert in DNA breakdown.
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So I don't know exactly how long it can last on an object if it lasts longer on certain
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surfaces.
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But that is something I would be curious if at any time any of the items found in this
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case, because there does seem to be a bit of evidence that if found today would absolutely
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be tested for DNA.
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So I wonder if that would even be a possibility or if it's just too old or the, you know,
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the evidence wasn't handled or kept properly.
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Those would all be questions that if I could have anything I wanted answered, those are
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all things that I would ask personally.
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I just also wonder if there were any true suspects in this case.
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You know, at the one year mark, police mentioned that they have two, but one is almost ruled
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out, but there is another one that they don't give any details about.
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So that's another question that I think I would ask or that I personally want to know
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more about.
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Is that person truly a suspect or has that person been ruled out?
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Have there ever been any like really good suspects in this case?
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Because it just doesn't seem like there were any.
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There was no big search when Larry Jo first went missing.
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You know, there was no big canvassing efforts or any attempt really to find him.
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It just looks like the report was made and that was that.
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So police were pretty far behind when they found the body and it doesn't seem like they
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ever really got out of that starting point.
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But again, if you know anything about the disappearance or murder of Larry Jo Phebus
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in 1962, please call the McKenzie County Sheriff at 701-444-3654.
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And once again, I just want to thank you all so much for the love, the support while Eli
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and I go through this time of grieving as we mourn the loss of his mother.
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I know for me, me and my mom share true crime as something that we both like.
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It's an interest that we share that we have in common.
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And I know that was the same with Eli and his mom and me and his mom.
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So you know, if that's a bond that you share with your mom, I just hope you call her today
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and just tell her you love her.
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If that feels good to you, I would totally recommend it.
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But please, if you're not already, follow us on Instagram.
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Hopefully we won't have any big hiccups come up.
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But you know, in the past few months, we've had COVID hit our house and then we had a
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death in the family.
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So if we are ever going to delay an episode or have to cancel a week, all of those updates
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can be found on Instagram.
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At cold and missing will pop right up and you can follow along with us there.
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If you're in your podcast app and you're enjoying what we're doing, please rate and review it
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and share it with your friends.
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If you're in Apple podcasts, if you can leave us a review, it helps others find us and enjoy
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our podcasts and get these stories out to more people so that way we can hopefully get these
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closed and solved and just bring the media attention back on these cold cases and unresolved
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missing person cases that are usually not covered in the day to day media.
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And also on our website, you can find all of our past episodes, additional pictures,
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materials, blog posts, information about Eli and I.
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And also if you or someone you love is hard of hearing or deaf, you can find transcripts
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to all our episodes on our website, www.coldandmissing.com.
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But that is all I have for this week.
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So thank you for joining me.
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I'm Allie McLaughlin, so Kowski.
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This is Cold and Missing.
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Have a good week and stay safe, y'all.
