Cold and Missing: Myron Traylor

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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.

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All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages and is intended for a mature

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audience.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing.

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I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.

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I am your co-host, Eli Sulkowski.

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And please forgive me, I am a little sick this week.

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So I probably won't be speaking a ton this week.

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You'll hear me again more at the end of the episode when I have questions for Ali after

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I hear about the case.

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Yeah, so this week we're going to be talking about a missing person.

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His name is Myron Traylor and this takes place July 27th, 1988 in Phoenix, Arizona.

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And just as a heads up, he is 13 years old when this takes place.

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So we are talking about a kid this week.

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So just at the top, I want to give a trigger warning.

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We are going to be talking about violence against youth.

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There is mention of drug use and then rumors of murder and assault.

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So all of those things will be mentioned throughout the podcast today.

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But first, a little bit about Myron.

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He was born October 1st, 1974.

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And at this time in July of 1988, he is 5'5", 106 pounds.

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He has black hair and brown eyes.

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And he wore glasses, but not on the day he disappeared.

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He also had a half inch scar on the right side of his head from a bicycle accident.

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His family describes him as very artistic.

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His grandmother Ruthie had his art in her home.

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And the Phoenix New Time reporter wrote, quote, it's better than what you would expect for

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a sixth grader.

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Myron was very active in his community, especially in his church, the Southminster Presbyterian.

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During the summer, he was attending a recreation program there.

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And he was also part of the church choir and youth group and would attend the Wednesday

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night Bible study there.

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So he was very active in his church community.

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He also had a paper route.

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He was actually working his paper route to save money for a trip to Disneyland that his

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church was taking.

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He had just signed up to play baseball.

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He was going to have the number 33.

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And his aunt, Sandra Traylor, says, quote, he was a quiet little boy.

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He didn't cuss as far as I know.

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And he wasn't into drugs.

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He had so much ahead of him and so much to look forward to, end quote.

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So on Wednesday, July 27th, 1988, this is the day that Myron disappeared.

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Myron and his mother Debbie are going to walk to Myron's grandmother's house.

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And they're going there because they want to call his brother Charlie, who is spending

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the summer with his uncle in California, and also because they needed to wash some clothes

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and their washing machine had broken at their home.

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And walking to their grandmother's house was something that they do a lot because Debbie

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didn't have a car.

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So they were very used to walking places.

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But on this day in July of 1988 in Arizona, it is hot outside.

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The weather is reported as being 106 that day.

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So even later in the evening, it's around six o'clock this time, it's still really

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hot out.

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Myron lived on the 1800 block of East Nancy Lane.

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And his grandmother's house is on the 1200 block of Pecan Street.

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And it's roughly a mile away.

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So at around 6pm, as Myron and Debbie are walking, Myron wants to stop at OK Fish and

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Chips to get a drink.

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And this is about halfway between his house and his grandmother's house.

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Debbie says that's fine and to catch up as she continues to walk.

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Myron is served by Lena Watt at OK Fish and Chips.

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And OK Fish and Chips sits in like a business plaza, but it's just a walk-up window.

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So there's no inside seating.

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There's only outside seating, because again, it's Arizona, you can sit outside a lot of

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the year.

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Lena Watt remembers this interaction with Myron.

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And she claims that at this time, there was nobody sitting in the restaurant tables.

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And Myron walked up to the window and ordered a cherry soda.

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And he stood in the shade and chugged it.

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He then ordered a second one.

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As he's leaving, she says goodbye.

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And he waves goodbye to her.

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And he's last seen headed towards the direction of Pecan Street, the way he would need to

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go to his grandmother's house.

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So from OK Fish and Chips, Myron's normal route from here would be to cross 16th Street

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to a business park opposite of OK Fish and Chips.

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And he would cut through the parking lot there.

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And next to that parking lot was a dirt field that Myron would walk across to reach Pecan

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Street.

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His grandmother's house was just down the road.

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So Myron is last seen in the parking lot of OK Fish and Chips by four witnesses.

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One of the witnesses was Debbie's boyfriend at the time, Geddes Mintz.

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When Myron was last seen, he was wearing a white and red striped shirt, white shorts

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with blueprint, and white sneakers.

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And he was carrying a cherry soda and a laundry bag.

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Debbie reaches the grandmother's house and says Myron is right behind her.

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But Myron doesn't show up.

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The family immediately begins to worry.

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But they think that maybe he went ahead and caught the bus to head to Bible study.

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Because originally, the plan was for Myron to pick up his best friend, who lived across

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the street from his grandmother.

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And they were going to catch the bus to go to Bible study together.

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But it was starting to get close to the time that Bible study would have started.

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So they think maybe he just went ahead and caught the bus there so he wouldn't be late.

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The Bible study got out around 930 that evening and there was no sign of Myron.

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So the family immediately called police.

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But police don't take it seriously at first.

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They think that Myron is out with friends and he'll probably show up in a couple of

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hours.

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But the family is very persistent that that is unlike him.

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He would have told somebody where he is going.

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Debbie also during this time rewalks the path that Myron should have taken to get to his

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grandmother's house, but she doesn't see anything and there's no sign of him.

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So the family continued to call the police.

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And on Thursday, July 28th at 2 a.m., the police came to finally take a report.

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Police begin investigating.

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And on Saturday, July 30th, the police say they have no evidence of foul play, but quote,

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we haven't found anything to indicate he's a runaway.

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And that is Sergeant Andy Anderson.

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Police officers and church members organize a search and they pass out flyers.

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It's reported that 40 people, mostly children, search the dirt fields looking for signs of

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Myron but they turn up nothing.

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Reverend G. Benjamin Brooks, Myron's pastor at Southminster Presbyterian, said that Myron

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had not told him of any troubles.

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He's a very quiet boy.

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He has no problems that I'm aware of, end quote.

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The next day, Sunday, the search continues with neighbors, family, and friends.

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And the family is interviewed in the paper.

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His mother says, quote, he's been walking back and forth to his grandmother's house

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for years.

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He's never disappeared before.

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He's doing well in school.

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He doesn't have any problems that he told me about, end quote.

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At this time, a rumor pops up that maybe Myron ran away to California to see his brother.

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But the family dismissed this idea because he doesn't have his uncle's address and he

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wouldn't know how to find him or how to get there.

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So they think this is pretty impossible.

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On Thursday, August 4th, this is one week Myron has been missing, police say that they

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are all out of leads.

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And investigators are still unsure at this time if he's been abducted or run away.

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Investigators say, quote, the officers who took the report also became concerned even

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though there was nothing to indicate an abduction.

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And they checked vacant homes and fields in the area, end quote.

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And that is Sergeant Andy Anderson again.

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And I just take this to mean that the officers who came at 2 a.m. to take the report, they

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started to take Myron's disappearance seriously, even though there was no crime scene at that

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time.

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There was no indication of foul play, but something definitely seemed off about his

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disappearance and runaway did not seem likely.

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On August 19th, this is three weeks after Myron has disappeared, a $5,000 reward is

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offered for information leading to his safe return.

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And police also confirmed that Myron was last seen at OK Fish and Ships in the parking lot.

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And officially, investigators turn away from a runaway theory and it becomes a child abduction

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case and possible homicide.

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In October of 1988, just over two months Myron has been missing, the police asked the public

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for help again.

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Myron had just turned 14 over the weekend.

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He's an October 1st birthday.

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Police are pretty frustrated by this case.

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Sergeant Mike Hopple says, quote, In Myron's case, they have investigated it thoroughly

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as though he were not a runaway and investigators have not been able to determine it one way

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or another, end quote.

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So again, there's just no sign of him.

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In February of 1989, this is just shy of seven months he's been missing.

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Police say he has been abducted and they knew this within the first week.

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Police also point out two other boys that had been kidnapped in the 1980s that at this

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time the crimes were unsolved.

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The first case is Brian Blyle and he was abducted while collecting money for his newspaper route

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on February 28th, 1981.

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A man was arrested for this in the 90s but was ultimately acquitted mainly because they

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never were able to find Brian's body.

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So to this day, this case remains open.

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Another boy, Mitchell Amador, was four years old and was last seen playing outside of his

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home in October of 1987.

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Ultimately in 1991, a family friend was convicted of the murder of Mitchell.

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So that case is closed as of today.

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Police say, quote, The frustrating part in dealing with Myron is we've really come up

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short.

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We should be further along, but we just don't have a strong indication of what happened

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to him, end quote.

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And that is Lieutenant Wayne Polk, the Phoenix Police Department missing person detail.

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So we are going to be getting into a lot of rumors over the next few years in the timeline.

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Again, they're all rumors and strange occurrences, I'll say, but they all kind of come back to

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Myron in one way or the other.

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So in the spring of 1990, Myron has been missing for one and a half years.

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Ruthie had answered the phone and she believed she was talking to her granddaughter who lived

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in Texas.

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But when Ruthie asked about her mom, the child hung up.

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Ruthie later told police that the voice could have been Myron's and thinking back on it.

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In the summer of 1990, a man called Myron's grandparents house looking for Myron.

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When Claude said his grandson was missing, the caller hung up.

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And also someone called Myron's best friends, the boy who lived across the street, to ask

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how's grandma doing in reference to Ruthie, Myron's grandmother.

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When the friend told the caller she was recovering from being in the hospital, the caller hung

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up.

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So a lot of hang up phone calls.

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In July of 1991, this is three years now Myron has been missing, rumors reach police that

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Myron was dealing drugs in Los Angeles, vowing to return to Phoenix to get revenge on his

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mom who gave him away.

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Police go to LA and turn up nothing.

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And police also say at this time that there is no evidence that Debbie had anything to

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do with Myron's disappearance.

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And police reveal she passed a polygraph early into the investigation.

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But the community, the family, police even are all frustrated just by the lack of information

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that's coming out.

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It's really just all rumors and strange hang up phone calls at this point.

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The Reverend G. Benjamin Brooks says, quote, it's about time that something be discovered

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as to what happened to him.

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Three years without one piece of information.

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That's a long, long time, end quote.

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Police say, quote, you have to believe that some harm has happened after this long to

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cause him to vanish off of the face of the earth.

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You have to speculate that something bad has happened, end quote.

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And then this is Ruthie Myron's grandmother says, quote, I know Myron, he's gone, but

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he didn't go by himself.

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He would have called someone or one of his friends, end quote.

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And at this time, Debbie has quit her job and relapsed into addiction.

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She had moved away from her family.

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So her family wasn't sure where she was living at this time.

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But Myron's younger brother lived with their grandparents and he talked about Myron always

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in present tense and as if Myron was in the next room.

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In the fall of 1991, Debbie receives an unsigned letter saying that Myron's body is buried

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on private property near 24th and Jones Avenue.

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Sergeant Kevin Robinson says, this is investigated, but nothing comes of it.

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In 1993, so this would be five years that Myron has been missing, a persistent caller

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tells police that a well-known crack dealer was bragging about murdering and assaulting

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a child.

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The dealer had gotten into a fight with his girlfriend and went to a bar near OK Fish

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and Chips the night that Myron disappeared.

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The dealer kidnapped, assaulted and murdered the child and buried him in his yard.

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Police investigate this again and again, since it's so specific, but they can't confirm

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any of the details.

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Ultimately, it turns out that this tipster was trying to get revenge on the dealer since

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his ex-girlfriend had moved in with the dealer.

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Sergeant John LaCarni says, quote, there's no chance he's right, end quote.

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In 1997, this would be seven years Myron was missing, his grandmother passes away, but

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the family continued to receive letters throughout the years talking about what had happened

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to Myron or where his body may be, and these letters are weird.

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00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:30,000
Ruthie, before she passed, originally began receiving the letters at her home.

233
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,720
They were always anonymous, no return address, but she did say that there was a South Texas

234
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:41,020
stamp on the envelope, but the letter says, quote, hello, I am not going to leave my name

235
00:14:41,020 --> 00:14:45,260
due to fear of what may happen to my mother who still lives in Phoenix, as what I have

236
00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:50,080
to say is the truth about some very bad soulless bastards, end quote.

237
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:58,100
In this letter, they call Myron Byron with a B, but they say that his disappearance is

238
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:03,740
entangled with the Mexican mafia, and they ultimately point to two men who live in the

239
00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:10,480
neighborhood called Kiko and Uncle Tony and say that they are the ones that killed Myron.

240
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:15,160
The letter says, quote, now why isn't Phoenix police doing anything about it since about

241
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,140
a dozen people have come forth?

242
00:15:17,140 --> 00:15:21,760
The word on the street is that Kiko is a paid snitch working for them, end quote.

243
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,660
These letters keep coming mentioning Kiko and Uncle Tony.

244
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:31,200
They mentioned vacant lots, and they mentioned places where chicken fights happen, all having

245
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,560
to do with Myron's disappearance.

246
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:41,000
But when Ruthie and Claude pass away and their daughter, Sandra, Myron's aunt, moves into

247
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:46,340
the home, the home that Myron was supposed to be headed to the evening he disappeared,

248
00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:51,680
the letters are no longer addressed to Ruthie, but they begin being addressed to Sandra.

249
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:57,280
So someone is at least watching the family enough to know to change who to address the

250
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,600
letters to.

251
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:05,120
The letters will ultimately say that these men killed Myron and fed his body to hogs,

252
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,760
and the letters always sign, quote, a friend, end quote.

253
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,320
In March of 2002, Debbie dies of cancer.

254
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:19,960
And while police say that she was not a suspect in this, her sister, Sandra, does believe

255
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,360
that she knew more than what she led on.

256
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,340
She says, quote, she knew something, end quote.

257
00:16:25,340 --> 00:16:32,040
And in May of 2002, so again, this is around 14 years Myron has been missing, police revealed

258
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:37,600
the only suspect they've ever had in the case, and that's Debbie's boyfriend, Geddes Mintz.

259
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,880
Geddes Mintz is a known cocaine dealer.

260
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:46,400
In the 1980s, he had been serving a seven-year sentence for aggravated assault, but was released

261
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,160
four months before Myron went missing.

262
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:55,600
Ultimately, he would be back in jail in March of 1989, which is seven months after Myron

263
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,040
went missing for attempted armed robbery.

264
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:03,640
And then as of today, of 2023, he is currently serving a sentence for second degree murder

265
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:10,400
after stabbing and killing his girlfriend and stabbing her mother who survived in 2009.

266
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,480
He will be released in 2043.

267
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:18,560
And he has never talked to investigators about Myron's disappearance.

268
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:24,840
But Mintz was one of the last people to see Myron in the parking lot the day that he disappeared.

269
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,960
Police theorize that Myron could have confronted Mintz about his drug use and him dating his

270
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:30,960
mom.

271
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,000
But it's also said that after Myron went missing, Mintz showed up with his arm in a sling, but

272
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,800
claimed it was from a dog bite.

273
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:43,960
Detective Bob Bernanski from the Phoenix PD, when asked what he thinks about what happened

274
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,080
to Myron, he says, quote, I think he's dead and I think he's buried somewhere not too

275
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,560
far from where he lived, end quote.

276
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:59,520
On Sunday, July 28, 2008, the family organized a candlelight vigil to mark the 20-year anniversary

277
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,120
of Myron missing.

278
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:05,500
The family is hopeful that at this point, someone will come forward that didn't want

279
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:07,280
to talk 20 years ago.

280
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:12,040
Sandra is quoted as saying, quote, it's awful living all these years without knowing.

281
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,580
We don't need names or anything.

282
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:16,240
We just want to know what happened, end quote.

283
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,340
Police say, quote, there is no doubt in investigators' minds that somebody is out there, probably

284
00:18:21,340 --> 00:18:24,920
in the Phoenix area, that knows what happened to Myron, end quote.

285
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,120
And that's Sergeant Andy Hill of the Phoenix PD.

286
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:35,680
In October of 2016, so this would be 28 years Myron has been missing, three men come to

287
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:41,560
Sandra's door and one says, quote, my last name is Traylor and I'm here from Texas.

288
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,440
My mama told me I had a bunch of kinfolk out here.

289
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:45,440
Are you family?

290
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,440
End quote.

291
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:51,980
Sandra is nervous because there's three strange men on her doorstep and she's not wearing

292
00:18:51,980 --> 00:18:54,340
her glasses so she can't really see them.

293
00:18:54,340 --> 00:18:58,420
So she asked them if they will come back when other people are home.

294
00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:00,480
So the men leave, but they never come back.

295
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,920
And Sandra wonders if this could have been Myron.

296
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,720
She says, quote, I should have opened the door, right?

297
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:06,720
End quote.

298
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,480
But that is really all we know of what happened to Myron.

299
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:18,040
Again, police believe that somebody in Phoenix knows something about what happened to him.

300
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,440
And if you happen to know something about what happened to Myron in 1988, please call

301
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,880
the Phoenix police at 602-261-8042.

302
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:35,520
Again, the Phoenix police phone number is 602-261-8042.

303
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,980
And the sources for today's podcast come from the Arizona Republic and they really covered

304
00:19:41,980 --> 00:19:42,980
the story.

305
00:19:42,980 --> 00:19:46,940
I read over 20 articles from them about this case.

306
00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:50,820
So they really did an incredible job covering this over the years.

307
00:19:50,820 --> 00:20:00,280
The Arizona Daily Star, the Merced Sunstar, Uncovered.com, Phoenix New Times, and Wonderground.com.

308
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:01,920
So that's the story of Myron Traylor.

309
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:02,920
Wow.

310
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,480
Thank you so much for telling us about him.

311
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,320
He sounds like a really sweet kid.

312
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:09,400
Yeah.

313
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,880
Over and over again, that's just what I kept reading, that he was a good kid.

314
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,920
He wasn't into any trouble.

315
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,240
He just loved going to church.

316
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,240
That was his.

317
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:26,120
I will say though, and I know that in context maybe this doesn't matter, but even if he

318
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:32,680
was quote a bad kid, no one deserves to go missing or be murdered.

319
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,560
Even if he had been into, drug dealers are still people.

320
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,320
Yeah, of course.

321
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:47,040
So I was thinking about that as I was listening, knowing that it was written in the 80s.

322
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:54,120
Or even now, journalism, they really highlight, they try to highlight specific positives of

323
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:58,000
a person or really lay into the negatives.

324
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,920
They paint the picture or paint the narrative.

325
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,120
I just thought that was interesting in being a part of this podcast and reading so many

326
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:14,200
articles that have been written over expansive time periods that it never really changes

327
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,360
the way they choose to write about a person.

328
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:18,360
Yeah.

329
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,640
Either you're a good kid who went missing or a bad kid that ran away.

330
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:23,640
Yeah.

331
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:31,640
When you were talking about how the cops interacted with them, my first question initially, because

332
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:37,160
I haven't seen this person, was, was he a black child?

333
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:38,160
He is.

334
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,160
He is.

335
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,160
Okay.

336
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:47,360
But more often than not, when a young black child goes missing, the cop's reaction is

337
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:51,400
always like, oh, they probably just went to hang with a friend.

338
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:59,360
When the family explicitly tells you, I know my child and that is not the case.

339
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:04,160
From that moment, they seem to always get it wrong from that assumption.

340
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:09,360
That's what's heartbreaking is I've seen it and you've seen it.

341
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,920
Having an interest in true crime and cold cases.

342
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:13,920
Yeah.

343
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,320
You just see it over and over again.

344
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,240
That's usually the biggest mistake is the initial assumption and that it happens most

345
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:29,320
often with black children or BIPOC children or just marginalized people.

346
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,320
It's really sad.

347
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,320
Yeah.

348
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:36,240
The idea that black children are seen as adults.

349
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,240
Very cool.

350
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,240
Yeah.

351
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:39,440
The perception of black children.

352
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,440
Yeah.

353
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,600
I think from my most privileged standpoint, I can say is that it's heartbreaking to see

354
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,280
that happen, that that happens over and over again.

355
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:58,680
It's an institutionalized way of people seeing younger marginalized children.

356
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,400
I was actually very surprised with how quickly police-

357
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:09,640
That's the thing I was also going to say is that this also seemed like a rare case because

358
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:15,360
quickly after it started to pick up pace and they seemed to care quite a bit more in other

359
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:19,240
cases that we have both talked about and not on the podcast.

360
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,240
Totally.

361
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,240
Yeah.

362
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:26,580
That was actually when I started researching this case and I saw he was a young missing

363
00:23:26,580 --> 00:23:28,640
black child from the 80s.

364
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,760
I initially assumed, okay, police probably thought he was a runaway for a while and didn't

365
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:41,600
look into it, but the family was able to get police out there by 2 a.m. to take a report

366
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,560
where, we have talked about families where that took days to happen.

367
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:47,560
Yeah.

368
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,920
I had the double, almost double take where I was like, oh no, it's happening again.

369
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,320
I was like, wait, maybe it's not.

370
00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:00,600
Yeah, and of course we don't always know what investigators have and haven't done until

371
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,680
the case is closed.

372
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,960
Unfortunately, for us, we don't get access to all of that once.

373
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:07,960
Exactly.

374
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,520
We only get what's out there.

375
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,480
We can't truly know what the police did or didn't do in this case, especially very early

376
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:22,800
on in this critical first few hours, but I was surprised at how quickly they came out

377
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:28,280
and that the officers at the scene became concerned when they were taking the report,

378
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:35,640
even though there wasn't a scene or a lot of witnesses saying they had seen him be kidnapped.

379
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,760
They were like, something is wrong here.

380
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:38,760
Something is wrong.

381
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:39,760
Yeah.

382
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,360
This young child didn't just walk away.

383
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,000
What do you think?

384
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:53,760
I'm very curious about the mother's ex-boyfriend because based off of his record, which I was

385
00:24:53,760 --> 00:25:01,880
able to look up and see everything, his crimes did get more violent.

386
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:08,560
It would seem to track, it would not surprise me if he, in this small break of time he was

387
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:16,120
out of prison, committed a crime, especially a violent crime considering he has a history

388
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:17,200
of it.

389
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:24,240
In 2009, he murdered his then-girlfriend and tried to murder her mother.

390
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:31,000
I will say too that it seemed like as time progressed, as distance was made from his

391
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:39,680
initial disappearance, it seems like, and I think this happens with most cases, the

392
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:46,200
detail and information and what might have happened became more muddled.

393
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:52,880
As more years passed, someone was like, oh, maybe this fact or this line of information.

394
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,840
It seems like they kind of got braided and confused together.

395
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:58,840
Yeah.

396
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,240
There were a lot of rumors in this case.

397
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:07,520
Rumors that were being almost said as factual and then being pulled in as part of the timeline

398
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,600
of stuff that may have happened.

399
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,800
It sounded confusing towards the end.

400
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:14,800
Yeah.

401
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,560
It really is.

402
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:24,480
Police are kind of working under this idea that he was abducted and probably murdered

403
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,480
the night he disappeared, if not shortly thereafter.

404
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:35,640
But then the family has these strange occurrences, like the phone call or the multiple phone

405
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,440
calls of people either looking for him or maybe it was him.

406
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,440
Oh my God.

407
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,720
When you started talking about that, I was like, the stranger.

408
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,240
How they write to the house.

409
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,240
Oh, the watcher?

410
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,240
The watcher, yeah.

411
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:48,240
Yeah.

412
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,240
I actually did.

413
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,440
Then the letter, is that- The letters, yeah.

414
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,420
I don't know if that person was genuinely trying to be helpful or if they're just somebody

415
00:26:57,420 --> 00:27:05,160
who wants to wreak havoc on a family that's already going through a lot, which is fucked.

416
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:11,880
Sometimes people are unwell and it could have been a lot of things.

417
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:19,720
But the thing that really creeped me out or made me like, oh, this is yucky, is when the

418
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,680
person writing the letters, because they were persistent with their letter writing to Ruthie,

419
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,920
but when Ruthie died and Sandra moved in, they were like, okay, to Sandra.

420
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:28,920
Sandra, Sandra, Sandra.

421
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:35,480
So it's like somebody that was at least in the know with enough of the family was keeping

422
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,480
an eye- Close enough.

423
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:37,480
Yeah.

424
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,640
Either close to the family or watching the family or keeping an eye on the family.

425
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,080
But somebody was like, I'm following you.

426
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,080
That's what's scary.

427
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,080
Yeah.

428
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:51,640
Then I don't blame Sandra at all for these three men showing up and her being like, no,

429
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,320
you're not coming into my house.

430
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,320
Absolutely not.

431
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:56,320
100%.

432
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,760
I don't care what your mama said about you having family up here.

433
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,760
Come back later.

434
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,920
And the fact they didn't- If three random men ever show up at my door,

435
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,320
your door, the door will never be opened.

436
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,800
That's like cold hard fact.

437
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,840
I'm not opening the door if three random men come to my door.

438
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:13,840
Yeah.

439
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:14,840
They're saying they're family.

440
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:15,840
Yeah.

441
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:16,840
Like- I don't know you.

442
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:17,840
Yeah.

443
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,600
And then when they didn't come back, I'm like, oh, that's a little icky.

444
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,520
So yeah, I feel really bad for this family because I feel like they've had to endure

445
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:32,760
so many rumors, which I can't even imagine how that tugs at your emotions of like, he's

446
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,720
alive, he's not.

447
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,480
I can't even imagine.

448
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:46,200
So my heart really goes out to this family and just having to deal with stuff that could

449
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,640
not even be related because it's like that all just takes away from the main focus, which

450
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,200
is getting him home.

451
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:58,480
And maybe people with good intentions who are like, I heard this thing that maybe got

452
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,340
warped through the grapevine, but I heard this thing.

453
00:29:02,340 --> 00:29:03,340
Maybe it's true.

454
00:29:03,340 --> 00:29:04,340
So they go to the police with that.

455
00:29:04,340 --> 00:29:08,520
Like that is- I think that should be encouraged to go for it if you have heard something.

456
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:14,660
But the person who was just making up this dealer, because his ex-girlfriend had moved

457
00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:18,220
in with the dealer, so he was trying to get him arrested for this murder, that just takes

458
00:29:18,220 --> 00:29:25,560
away resources and time and plays with the family's emotions that they might get answers,

459
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,640
might not be what they want.

460
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,920
That's just so shitty.

461
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:30,920
Don't do that.

462
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:37,040
Again, if you know anything or have heard anything, we do encourage that if you have

463
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:43,640
heard anything, please call the Phoenix police at 602-261-8042.

464
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:50,520
But other than that, you can follow us on Instagram at Cold and Missing, where we will

465
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,760
be posting the graphics Eli makes.

466
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:59,680
The update new throughout the week of just basically everything that Ali covered and

467
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,240
a little bit more in-depth descriptions of what those things are.

468
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,240
Yeah, lots of pictures from the case.

469
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:13,560
And while you're there, the link in our bio, it has- we mentioned this last week, but the

470
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:21,400
GoFundMe for Faith, Tito J. Garcia-Quintanilla's wife, who's trying to raise money for a private

471
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,680
investigator to look into her husband's disappearance.

472
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,400
We talked about Tito in December recently.

473
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,580
Please go there.

474
00:30:28,580 --> 00:30:34,880
If you're unable to share or if you're unable to support financially, share in your communities

475
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,420
a lot.

476
00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:38,960
This family means so much to us and we really want-

477
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:44,400
Even just posting it on your story, it gets another, however many followers you have who

478
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,560
look through your story, it has eyes on it.

479
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,840
It does so much to just share.

480
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,760
It's totally cool if you can't donate, but if you feel inclined, please share it.

481
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,400
It's really helpful when you do.

482
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,880
Yeah, so please share that.

483
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:04,280
You can find the link to that in the link in our bio on Instagram.

484
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:09,120
While you're in your podcast app, if you could go ahead and give us a five-star review if

485
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:14,560
you think we are so worthy of it or a thumbs up, a like.

486
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,440
You know what the metrics are.

487
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,000
If you're an Apple podcast, leaving us a written review, they go up on our fridge and we love

488
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,880
them, all of them.

489
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,680
Also, if you like what we're doing here and you want more of it, you can give us a little

490
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,200
tip at buy us a coffee.

491
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,760
Again, that's in the link in our bio on Instagram.

492
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:39,280
So if you feel so inclined, we've had people do that in the past for us and wow, you are

493
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,160
prayed for regularly in this home.

494
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,720
So thank you again.

495
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,960
If you have supported in the past or even thought about it, thank you.

496
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,960
I know inflation is high.

497
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:49,960
Money is tight.

498
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,240
So if you've been able to spare $5 our way, wow, you're a hero.

499
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,640
It's really helped us step up our recording quality and honestly, we're able to spend

500
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:06,320
more time dedicating our energy to this.

501
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,360
The generosity from the listeners is really helpful.

502
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,760
So thank you.

503
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:11,760
Thank you.

504
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,120
But that's all I have.

505
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,120
Thank you, Al.

506
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,120
Yeah.

507
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,120
Appreciate all your hard work as always.

508
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,400
So have a good week and stay safe, y'all.

509
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:34,280
Stay safe, y'all.