Transcript
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The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.
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All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
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Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages.
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Listener discretion is advised.
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I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.
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And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski.
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And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover cold cases and missing person cases.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing.
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I'm Ali.
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And I'm Eli.
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We are on part two of episode 86 this week, which I guess would be episode 87, right?
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I am, I've been looking forward to this second part since we did the last episode.
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I'm hoping our listeners are right there with me.
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Yeah, I say let's just get into it.
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Let's do it.
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So again, just as a content warning, this case does involve a young person.
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So just as a quick recap to remind you all where we are, if you are new to Cold and Missing,
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stop here and go back and listen to last week's episode to get all caught up as this is a part
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two, but if you listened last week, here's just a quick little reminder of where we are
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in the timeline.
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Six-year-old Regina Armstrong was abducted from behind her babysitter's apartment while
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playing barefoot in a green dress with blue flowers.
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Something new that I actually learned this week was that it was Regina and her sister
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second time at the babysitter's.
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They had just started going there the day before the abduction.
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While playing, a man approached her, her older sister, and another child,
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and offered the older children money to watch an apartment while he took Regina to pick
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up his grandkids.
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Despite the children raising the alarm, police weren't alerted until 90 minutes later,
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and then a huge search was launched for Regina in central Florida.
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Almost overnight, Orlando was wallpapered with Regina's missing person poster and the
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composite sketch of the suspect.
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Over the next few weeks, police will search block by block for any sign of Regina while
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the tip line keeps getting reports of the man being spotted all around town.
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Regina's family are desperate to get her back and are very hopeful that she is still
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alive.
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They believe that since they have not found her dead, that there's a chance she's being
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kept alive by her abductor.
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This is later fueled when a reported sighting of the suspect involved him asking a Popeye's
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employee to open a can of ravioli, Regina's favorite food.
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So now we are back in the timeline.
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So we're just a few days after Regina's abduction, and a delivery man comes forward
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to police to tell them that he believes he has also seen Regina.
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He believes he saw her the morning after her abduction.
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He was driving the back roads of Orlando and was lost when he saw a brown Oldsmobile with
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two people asleep inside.
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When he knocked on the window to ask for directions, the little girl in the back seat sat up and
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started to cry.
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The man sleeping in the front seat quickly started the car and sped off.
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Later, the delivery man will see the missing person poster and remember the strange interaction
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he had on the back road.
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On July 7, 1985, Regina has been missing for just shy of three weeks at this point.
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Friends and family of Regina publish a letter in the newspaper appealing to Regina's
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captor.
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It's clear that they're trying to reach his humanity.
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I won't read the whole thing, but I do want to read part of it.
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It says, quote, Regina probably has become precious to you.
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And as strange as this may seem to some, we know you have grown to love her in some of
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the ways we do.
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We don't know why you took her.
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We only know that her absence has left a terrible emptiness in our lives.
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What we have heard and read in the news reports has convinced us that you are a different
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kind of abductor.
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And because of your good side, you were smart enough to know that no good can come from
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taking someone else's child.
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We beg you to reconsider what you've done.
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To be the man we know you can be.
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Here's how.
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Take Regina to a safe and busy place, perhaps early in the morning.
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Leave her there with instructions to wait a certain amount of time before asking the
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nearest adult to contact her parents.
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While many people would like to be the hero of the story, you are the only one who really
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can.
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Please, please keep her safe.
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Let her go and be on your way.
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Allow all our lives to return to normal.
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You don't want thousands of strangers looking for you and Regina for years, as we surely
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would do.
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Again, thank you for giving us reason to believe you're a good person who will release
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her.
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Regina took a long time coming to us, but she's worth a lifetime of working to get
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back.
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End quote.
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On July 14th, this is approaching one month of Regina's abduction.
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Police start to pull detectives off the case.
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The case is going from about 35 to 40 detectives working full time to around 16.
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Detectives are busy interviewing all sex offenders in the area, and they're also
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interviewing kidnappers recently released from prison to check on their alibis.
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They're also checking court records to see if anyone matching the suspect's
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description had lost custody of his children recently.
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Police haven't had a solid lead in two weeks.
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However, Orlando police are encouraged that they can still find her alive.
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Detective Wade says, quote, But we have to remember that it's gone six weeks now, and
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she hasn't turned up dead.
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That means there's a good chance she's alive and she's safe with the man.
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If that's so, then she'll stay safe.
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End quote.
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Suddenly, the tip line is lighting up again with possible sightings for Regina and the
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suspect.
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This happens during the first week of August.
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It's about six weeks from the time Regina was kidnapped, but police received several
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tips placing Regina and the man in Los Angeles.
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Police are hopeful because several callers say the little girl is wearing a blue and
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green flowered sundress, the same description of the clothes Regina was abducted in.
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Additionally, callers say the girl is barefoot and we know that Regina was too at the time
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of her abduction.
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Witnesses keep seeing the girl and the man resembling the suspect in fast food
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restaurants in the same area of LA.
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The LAPD begins to search the area for the pair and Regina's parents fly to LA just
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hours after police alert them that there has been a break in the case.
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Her mother, Donna says, quote, This is the first positive thing we've had in so long
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that I don't know how to take it.
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The waiting has been so bad.
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This has got to be her.
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End quote.
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As LAPD scour the area, more and more witnesses recognize Regina's presence.
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LAPD decide to stake out the area where they're getting the most witnesses.
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Plane closed officers spend the day in and out of fast food places, riding the bus,
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walking around parks.
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Police are convinced that Regina is in the area since people who are unfamiliar with
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the case described her and her dress so perfectly.
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Additionally, witnesses say that the girl looks scared and the man stops other people
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from talking to her.
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The LAPD is also looking for evidence that Regina was abducted in Los Angeles.
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Police also found that Regina was in the area when people were trying to stop other
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people from talking to her.
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A witness at the donut shop said she served the little girl Regina's favorite kind
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of donut.
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On Wednesday, August 7th, police are able to locate the young girl in LA.
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It's not Regina.
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Police found her and her father sitting at a bus stop.
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Police brought them in for questioning.
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However, the LAPD and Orlando police all agree that the little girl in LA looks
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similar to the composite sketch.
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Police aren't surprised that the two were confused for Regina and her abductor.
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Regina's parents are crushed.
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Her dad, Bob, says, quote, it's disappointed us, that's for sure.
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But I don't want to go home until they tell us for sure there's no hope.
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There's still too many coincidences for us to think she wasn't even here.
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End quote.
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Donna and Bob stay in LA a few extra days to continue to search and hand out flyers.
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But eventually they'll head back to Orlando, heartbroken that they're not
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bringing Regina home with them.
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Regina's case is on a time crunch with police.
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If they're not able to develop significant leads in the next month, then police will
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have to reduce the amount of detectives working it.
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Another false alarm will raise hope in Regina's family and the community.
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A security guard finds a man and a young girl experiencing houselessness.
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The man said that he didn't have a job and didn't have anywhere to take his daughter.
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The security guard was suspicious of the circumstances and worried about the little girl.
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So he offered to take them to his apartment.
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At some point, the little girl is left with the security guard's wife while the man is
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driven back to the park.
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As soon as the two men leave, the little girl tells the security guard's wife that
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she is Regina Armstrong.
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The woman immediately calls police who show up and begin to question the young girl.
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They interview her for hours and they even go as far as to fingerprint her to compare
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them to a set they have of Regina's.
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And they're not a match.
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The little girl is only four years old, but she did have a strange knowledge of Regina's
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case.
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Sergeant Tom Langford says, quote, it was really strange.
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The girl sounded so rehearsed and she knew so much about the Armstrong case.
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Even after we had determined that she was not the missing girl, she still said her name
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was Regina Mae Armstrong.
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I don't know if it was a publicity stunt or what.
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End quote.
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The summer continues to march on and every single day without a lead, more and more
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detectives are pulled off the case.
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Finally, by September, just over two months since Regina was abducted, only two detectives
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remain on the case.
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On March 16th, 1986, Regina's seventh birthday comes and goes and her family misses her
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every day.
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But they feel the absence of her extra on her very special day.
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In June of 1986, it's been a year that Regina has been missing.
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Her dad, Bob says, quote, in a way, it seems like forever.
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And in another way, it seems like yesterday.
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Everything that happened on June 18th was so vivid in our minds.
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But when you think about how long she has not been here, it seems like a lifetime.
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I would love to see her.
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I would probably squeeze her so tight.
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I would knock the wind out of her.
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I would give my life to see her again and hear her voice.
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That will be a miracle.
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I would never want anything else in life.
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End quote.
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Police feel that they are at a standstill with the case.
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Detective Wait says, quote, the only way we're going to solve this case is because
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somebody out there knows this man or he is talking to somebody.
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It is going to be the public who gives us information and it will be up to us to
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follow up on the information and find her.
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End quote.
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Police have boxes and boxes of files and interviews, but they truly have not
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developed any credible leads since the day that Regina was kidnapped.
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Regina's family still believe that she is alive, but are faced with the reality
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that she could be gone.
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Her dad had this message, quote, I just want her to remember that we are still
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thinking about her.
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If she is gone, I want to know she is.
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It takes a pretty low person to do what this person has done.
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If he has taken her life, he should have the decency to call us.
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If he has taken her life, he got what he wanted and he ought to let us have what
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we wanted.
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End quote.
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The rest of 1986 ends without any updates about Regina and 1987 comes and goes
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with more of the same.
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Finally, in July of 1988, Regina has been missing for three years now.
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Her mother, Donna, is called into a police station to identify a dirty flowered
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dress, the same one that Regina had been wearing the day she was abducted.
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With the dress was the skull of a small child.
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When Donna positively ID the dress as Regina's, police will sign Regina's
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death certificate.
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How we got to this point is that the dress was found almost 10 months before
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this.
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What had happened was in September of 1987, construction workers stumbled upon
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the skull and dress in an Ovadio subdivision that was being built.
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The chief of police at that time, Robert Wayne Hancock responded to the call.
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A crime scene unit arrived on the scene to collect the skull and dress as
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evidence.
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The scene was photographed and the surrounding area was searched as well.
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No other bones were found near the skull or dress.
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Police do have the skull and dress.
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The skull belonged to a young girl who was five to seven years old.
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She figured that the child had been dead no more than three years.
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While these measures were taken initially by police, after this, there is
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no attempt to ID the skull internally by the police department.
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According to reports, those that knew about the skull and dress speculated
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that it could be Regina, but no one thought to notify or report that it
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could be Regina.
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Chief Hancock will blame the investigator of his department, who, just
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as a note, has a very bizarre name.
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The investigator, Sparky Dingess, points the blame back at Chief Hancock.
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A few weeks after the skull is found, Chief Hancock is fired.
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According to reports, he failed to investigate two murders, falsified
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timesheets and purchase orders, and was arrested on the spot.
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He also showed up two and a half hours late to a drug raid and never looked
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into an incident where someone was smoking cannabis in the dispatch room.
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A new police chief takes over and investigator Dingess asks for money to
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run tests on the dress.
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When the new police chief hears about the dress, he immediately connects it
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to Regina's case and contacts Orlando police.
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That same week is when Donna is called in to ID the dress.
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Officials are shocked that her dress and skull had been sitting in an evidence
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locker for months without answers.
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A state attorney said, quote, this is the most incompetent piece of policework
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I've seen in my 20 years in this business.
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End quote.
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The city of Oviedo officials said, quote, I'm really saddened and sickened
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that we may have had the answers for those parents for almost a year and
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could have been the answers for the parents of the parents of the parents
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of those parents for almost a year and couldn't get to the point of relieving
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their anguish.
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Apologizing to them for what our police department failed to do is all we
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could do.
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End quote.
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Investigators in Regina's case are unable to determine much from the skull.
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It had been sitting in the Florida sun and had been bleached out.
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They couldn't tell precisely how long it had been out there or what the
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manner of death was.
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Police will go back and search the area where the skull and dress were
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found.
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But after months of construction, those who live near the area doubted that
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police would be able to find anything after everything had been plowed and
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bulldozed.
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Police will eventually decide not to excavate the land where Regina's skull
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was found since the chances of finding more evidence seems slim.
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Police do believe that she was put there shortly after her abduction in 1985.
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At that time, the area was rural and only dirt roads ran through the area.
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Police believe that because of this, the suspect was likely a resident of
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central Florida and would have known his way around the back roads.
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Also, the fact that Regina was still found in the state of Florida leads them
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to believe that her abductor is also a resident of Florida.
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While a firm idea of the skull is never truly determined, genetic testing at
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that time in the 1980s proved fruitless since the skull had sat out in the sun
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and rained for too long.
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Any genetic material in the teeth had disappeared and no dental records were
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available.
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However, police do believe that it is Regina.
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Eventually, after a few months, they'll turn the skull over to the family after
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the testing is done so they can hold a funeral service for her.
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The years come and go.
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Regina's family files lawsuits against the police and against a news station for
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broadcasting a picture of her skull on TV.
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On her 21st birthday, in March of 2000, her dad writes a letter to her in the
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paper.
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It says, quote, honey, today you would have turned 21.
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It's been a hard 15 years since you were stolen away from us.
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Although the person responsible for your death has never been caught, God will
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deal with him soon.
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Until daddy gets to see you again, you be the best little angel in God's kingdom.
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You are safe there.
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God will see to this.
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End quote.
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In July of 2007, Orlando police announced that they're reopening the case.
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They plan to have the dress tested for DNA to hopefully help identify a suspect.
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But as of 2024, no suspect has ever been developed from the DNA.
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Police believe that their best chance at cracking the case is someone comes
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forward with information or DNA technology advances.
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But that is all we know about the abduction and murder of Regina.
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May Armstrong.
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Again, if you have any information about Regina's case, please call Crime Line
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at 1-800-423-8477.
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And the sources for the timeline today come from the Orlando Sentinel and
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Pensacola News Journal.
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So that is the full case of Regina Armstrong.
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I did it to myself like I always do.
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But I imagine that other people's minds do the same thing.
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Even when you know it's a cold case, I kept hoping for a different outcome.
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Even already knowing the outcome.
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So like holding that and, you know, kind of breaking my own heart while listening
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is just a small tiny fraction of what this family so clearly went through and continues
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to go through.
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Listening to Regina's parents plead with someone who is incapable of choosing to do
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the right thing is just, it was devastating to listen to you just quote what he was saying.
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Yeah, that letter that was in the newspaper pleading to the abductor was one of the most
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heartbreaking things that I've ever read.
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It was so clear.
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How much they wanted to like reach out and like try to touch the humanity in this person
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and like plead to whatever good that they might have had in them.
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And you know, they really, the family really did do everything that they could do and
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everything in their power to try to bring Regina home.
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You know, perpetrators like this, they leave such a wake in the violence that they create.
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And the extra heartbreaking thing is that most of the time they are very incapable of
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understanding that they are creating that heartbreak and they don't care.
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You know, we could go on and on about that, but just, you know, I send so much love to
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the family still to kind of pivot a little bit.
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I think it's a little shady that it was only the second time these kids had been with this
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babysitter and maybe I'm grasping at straws, but I don't know.
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I don't like it.
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So I just wanted to talk about it with you.
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Yeah, learning that detail I thought was kind of striking because initially I had maybe
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thought that the kids were in a bit of a routine and maybe somebody in the neighborhood was
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the kids were in a bit of a routine and maybe somebody in the neighborhood had noticed and
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was watching and knew the kids would be outside playing in the afternoon because that's what
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they had done day after day after day after day and with minimal supervision.
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But learning that that was only their second time there feels chaotic in a lot of ways.
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Like, was this just a completely random opportunity or is there something else going on there?
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Police have never charged the babysitter with anything or the babysitter was never,
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you know, charged with any crimes related to Regina's disappearance.
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I also just have to like, wonder what the hell was happening in central Florida during this time
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because I wasn't able to mention it in the timeline today, but there were two additional
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abductions of children where the description very closely matched Regina's abductor and
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one of the circumstances eerily resembled Regina's abduction where two sisters were playing outside
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in a parking lot of their apartment building and a man approached them asking if they wanted to
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see some puppies and the girl was taken. She is later dropped off about 32 hours later in a random
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parking lot. She's still alive, but there's all of these things and then in our last episode we
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talked about the Cocoa Beach so it's just like what? Police don't connect these but there's
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obviously something happening where the same description of the man is seen over and over,
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either breaking into people's homes or walking up to children and walking away with them.
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It just seems wild to think that there are multiple people doing that as opposed to maybe one or two
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people doing that during this time frame. I don't know if statistics support that but it just seems
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like statistically there would maybe only be one or two people doing this as opposed to
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five different abductors which I think is what it would be.
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Yeah, that's a lot of movement, that's a lot of abductions, there are a lot of like amber
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alerts. I don't know if that existed at the time but you know I imagine if it was multiple people
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it would have been creating some noise at least in media. Just as a side note amber alerts weren't
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introduced till 1996 so those wouldn't have happened at this time. Something that I think was
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while even if it was well intended, I mean impact over intent, you know, I don't think it was right
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for law enforcement to create any sense of false hope for this family. Specifically around them
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saying that she might still be alive and safe with this person and I immediately wrote down as I was
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listening to that is I will never assume that a loved one of mine is safe with a man that I don't
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know. You know so to operate with that kind of mindset as law enforcement it's like you one you
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should know better, two don't be saying anything like that to the family and I just like don't
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really understand the lack of transparency and honesty there. I did think that as I was researching
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but I think what police maybe just didn't know are the statistics that we have today.
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The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children was really in its infancy at this point.
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Adam Walsh was murdered in 1981 I believe so John Walsh was pretty integral with the family. He was
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a big support to them and even he was saying you know after a few weeks that maybe it is possible
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that she's alive because they haven't found her and at that point police believed that
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they would find the body within so many miles of where she was abducted because that's what history
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had shown them. They didn't really have all the data that we have today and police are more
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forthcoming with their information and their data and their statistics so that way nationwide we can
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have a better understanding of child abductions and what the statistics are. So I do agree that
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I think there was a lot of false hope given to the family but I think at that time it is
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genuinely what they believed that there was a shot that it could happen. I think you're right and I
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will you know I'm always willing to table my my judgment and learn and unlearn. As you were
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speaking it just also occurred to me that like yeah like maybe in this area something is wrong
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like this had never happened so what else are you going to say? It's just as easy for me to sit here
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and you know make judgment calls on how people behaved at the time but it's a lot easier for me
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to try to break down the understanding of the mindsets at the time and that you're absolutely
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right there could have been a hundred percent earnestness in them saying something like that
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and I understand that too. I just want to swing over to the sighting in LA really quick which is
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across the country. I mean I that was my jaw was kind of hanging open because of all of the
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information around that but you know the girl being four it happening at random the Regina's
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family going out there I don't know if that was all maybe if I'm completing a couple things.
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No the only detail is the four-year-old was the other girl who later would say that she was Regina
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Mae Armstrong and had all of the knowledge of the case. She was the four-year-old I do believe the
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girl in LA was around the same age as Regina would have been but police were not surprised when they
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found the father and daughter in LA because they both looked shockingly like Regina and like the
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composite sketch so it was a really easy error to make. Yeah that makes sense to me and I'm
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remembering correctly now that they were two separate incidences but still just I don't know
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the wild things that people can do because clearly this girl was taught to say and echo
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these things that she was probably told for whatever reason I do not understand why.
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I'm so sad it happened I'm sad it happened to that girl I'm sad it you know raised some hope up in
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the family but a bizarre moment in the case. Totally and then of course the finding of her dress and
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her skull that's like really that police their reaction to it of being really slow in trying to
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figure out who the dress belonged to who the skull belonged to I just thought that this case kind of
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shows two police reactions the Orlando police you know when she was abducted they pull out all the
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stops they search for weeks they have 40 detectives on the case for a month they really do kind of
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everything in their power you know that they're able to do a great response but then you have this
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other police department that really drags their feet doesn't really put it as a priority doesn't
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talk to other police departments and it just shows that they're not really doing anything wrong.
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It really is about the people who are doing the job and if people don't want to be doing the job a
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lot of things are going to slip through the cracks. Yeah it's a little difficult I'm still kind of
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processing the even though I knew Regina was murdered I didn't really know how and I didn't
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know the details and now that I do it just feels so crass to say but like I don't understand how
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you find a part of someone's head that's like very clearly a child's size and every part of you doesn't
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move into action so I think I'm just gonna kind of reflect on you know knowing this very horrific
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information about what Regina's abductor did to her but I um I'm so sorry to the family that they
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that the the finding of of their little girl is just a piece of her. You know my future hopes for
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this case is really that DNA advances they last tried to test I believe in 2007 we've had a lot
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of advances in DNA technology since then so I am hopeful that the Orlando police will maybe
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make a decision in the future to retest obviously you don't want to do it too soon because you only
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have so much material to use so I know that sometimes you have to be strategic with the
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advancements in technology but I do hope that they are able to pull DNA evidence that maybe
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there's a matching CODIS or it can lead to an identity and Regina's killer will have to face
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some justice in this and have to answer for what they've done. Definitely if this person is still
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out there they have got plenty of time to uh to pay for what they did you know they're
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they've got some years left on them and I would imagine that whoever knows
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anything about this still has time left on their lives as well so I really hope that if they know
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anything they come forward because again and we said it last in last week's episode Regina's case
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is completely solvable. Completely we have a very good composite sketch people talk it is very
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solvable. We'll be posting some pictures of Regina on our Instagram so if you're not following us
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please check us out there also thank you to all the new reviews that came in this week we appreciate
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it so much if you have time maybe before you go to your next podcast if you could leave us a written
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review an apple podcast that would be so great it helps other people find our podcast and give it a
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chance and who knows maybe the person who will give us a chance is somebody who knows something
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about Regina so thank you for helping us get these cases out there. We also have transcripts
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of all our podcast cases at www.coldandmissing.com. If you or your loved one is hard of hearing you
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can follow along there with our transcripts. That's all I have thank you so much for listening to
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Cold and Missing. I'm Allie and I'm Eli have a good week and stay safe y'all stay safe y'all
